slurs/accidentals across barlines

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slurs/accidentals across barlines

bobroff@centrum.is
The following code illustrates what I believe is a bug:

\version "2.5.30"

\score {
  \relative c'' {
    \key as \major
    a1-(
    as-)
  }
}


The output looks like a pair of tied 'a's but is, in fact a slur from an
a to an a-flat.  To be sure, LilyPond *does* make a visual difference
between slurs and ties, but when reading music the output from the above
will not clearly communicate that the second note is an a-flat.  I think
LilyPond should recognize such situations and force a courtesy
accidental.

-David



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Re: slurs/accidentals across barlines

Erik Sandberg
On Thursday 09 June 2005 20.41, David Bobroff wrote:

> The following code illustrates what I believe is a bug:
>
> \version "2.5.30"
>
> \score {
>   \relative c'' {
>     \key as \major
>     a1-(
>     as-)
>   }
> }
>
>
> The output looks like a pair of tied 'a's but is, in fact a slur from an
> a to an a-flat.  To be sure, LilyPond *does* make a visual difference
> between slurs and ties, but when reading music the output from the above
> will not clearly communicate that the second note is an a-flat.  I think
> LilyPond should recognize such situations and force a courtesy
> accidental.

I think this is one of the rare situations where the user should realise that
a reminder would be a good idea, & add a ! to the as.

Mostly, automatized decisions such as the accidental handling, are designed to
follow rules that do what you want in a vast majority of the cases, but that
still are simple and without too many special cases for uncommon situations.
If special cases like this would be handled automatically, the code would be
harder to maintain, and it would also be a lot harder for a human to predict
whether lilypond will insert an automatic accidental before a given note.

Erik


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Re: slurs/accidentals across barlines

Han-Wen Nienhuys
Erik Sandberg wrote:

>>The output looks like a pair of tied 'a's but is, in fact a slur from an
>>a to an a-flat.  To be sure, LilyPond *does* make a visual difference
>>between slurs and ties, but when reading music the output from the above
>>will not clearly communicate that the second note is an a-flat.  I think
>>LilyPond should recognize such situations and force a courtesy
>>accidental.
>
>
> I think this is one of the rare situations where the user should realise that
> a reminder would be a good idea, & add a ! to the as.

I agree with David on this one. This is not a blatant error, but very
insidious: you cannot tell from the output there is an error in the part.


--
  Han-Wen Nienhuys - [hidden email] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen


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Re: slurs/accidentals across barlines

Erik Sandberg
On Friday 10 June 2005 00.03, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:

> Erik Sandberg wrote:
> >>The output looks like a pair of tied 'a's but is, in fact a slur from an
> >>a to an a-flat.  To be sure, LilyPond *does* make a visual difference
> >>between slurs and ties, but when reading music the output from the above
> >>will not clearly communicate that the second note is an a-flat.  I think
> >>LilyPond should recognize such situations and force a courtesy
> >>accidental.
> >
> > I think this is one of the rare situations where the user should realise
> > that a reminder would be a good idea, & add a ! to the as.
>
> I agree with David on this one. This is not a blatant error, but very
> insidious: you cannot tell from the output there is an error in the part.

OK, added as accidental-reminder-slur.ly:
%
%David Bobroff
\version "2.5.30"

\header {
texidoc = "There should be an automatic reminder accidental before the as."
reportedin = "2.5.30"
}

  \relative c'' {
    \key as \major
    a1-(
    as-)
  }

--
Erik Sandberg
Maintainer of the Lilypond bug CVS archive,
http://savannah.gnu.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs/lilypond/lily-bugs/bugs/
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.5/bugs/out/index.html


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Re: slurs/accidentals across barlines

bobroff@centrum.is
In reply to this post by Han-Wen Nienhuys
On Fri, 2005-06-10 at 00:03 +0200, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:

> Erik Sandberg wrote:
> >>The output looks like a pair of tied 'a's but is, in fact a slur from an
> >>a to an a-flat.  To be sure, LilyPond *does* make a visual difference
> >>between slurs and ties, but when reading music the output from the above
> >>will not clearly communicate that the second note is an a-flat.  I think
> >>LilyPond should recognize such situations and force a courtesy
> >>accidental.
> >
> >
> > I think this is one of the rare situations where the user should realise that
> > a reminder would be a good idea, & add a ! to the as.
>
> I agree with David on this one. This is not a blatant error, but very
> insidious: you cannot tell from the output there is an error in the part.
>
>

Just wanted to be clear on a point about this.  I said "courtesy
accidental" in my original post.  Bad choice of words on my part as it
could be misleading.  I think it should be a '!' accidental and not a
'?' accidental.  If I were to see '()' around the accidental in the
situation I gave in my example I would say it was wrong.

-David



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