# "Controlled aleatorism" notation

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## "Controlled aleatorism" notation

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## Re: "Controlled aleatorism" notation

 On 12/14/05, Andrzej Kopec <[hidden email]> wrote: > Hello, > > I want to ask if there is (better) method of utilizing Lilypond to typeset aleatoric > music. For these not familiar with subject: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleatoric_music > This notation was broadly used by Witold Lutosławski and Kazimierz > Serocki (the greatest XX-cent. polish composers), and I suppose, that > it isn't something strange to many other western Europe composers) FWIW, this sort of thing, also known as "box notation" (since there's frequently a square or rectangular black box enclosing the trigger material) was also  quite a favorite of certain American composers during (primarily) the 60s and 70s. Jacob Druckman, for example. At least in the US, the popularity was due, IMO, to the fact that this sort of thing can get you (at least the appearance of) some rhythmic complexity without having to scatter a bunch of tuplets everywhere. The popularity in the US has since died off; Poland seems to be another story given that this sort of thing made in appearance in the hands of the Polish composers in Darmstadt at least as recently as last year. -- Trevor Bača [hidden email] _______________________________________________ lilypond-user mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
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## Re: "Controlled aleatorism" notation

 In reply to this post by Andrzej Kopeć-3 Andrzej Kopec wrote: > >     //         \\ > ----||--|-------||                    |----- > ----||.-|---|--.||                    |----- > ----||.-|---|--.||~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|----- > ----||--o---|---||                    |----- > ----||------o---||                    |----- >     \\         // > > This notation was broadly used by Witold Lutosławski and Kazimierz > Serocki (the greatest XX-cent. polish composers), and I suppose, that > it isn't something strange to many other western Europe composers) > > To achieve that I've prepared stencils (as callbacks for print function, BTW method seen on this > list) repOn-callback and repOff-callback. And then I insert them to Rest's > print-function. Why rest? maybe because I couldn't find any better object. But rest isn't > perfect frame for such things. Nevertheless this works in limited range, but > works. Difficulties start if there is more than one voice/instrument. > Also wavy line made with TrillSpanner, and it is very hard to exactly determine start and > stop points, and exact vertical positioning in consecutive systems. > > So I have some questions: > > 1. is there any more suitable grob for this purpose? for what? Brackets or the wavy line? > this means: some object which don't >    take place in "musical time" but can be ideally vertically and horizontally (in latter >    rests used to have obstacles) positioned to staff. This is similar to BarLine, and in >    past I had used BarLines (ie. |: and :|, with Timing_engraver in Staff context) for >    that, but if I put patterns with a little shift in subsequent staves I get lots of >    empty spaces on each staff (place for barlines in other staffs). Ideal would be some >    object with no X-extent. Any ideas? > > 2. Is there any way to typeset spanner exactly from one place to another, in manner that >    it starts at \stopStaff and stops at \startStaff ? why don't you change the number of stafflines to 1 and start a new staff?  ie.    \stopStaff    \override Staff.StaffSymbol #'line-count = #1    \startStaff     ...    \stopStaff    \revert Staff.StaffSymbol #'line-count    \startStaff     ... Another option is to override the stencil callback for StaffSymbol. If you have problems with this, I can cook up a sponsored aleatoric example .ly , but I guess there will be lots of people eager to demonstrate their elite L1l33P0nd ski11z :) --   Han-Wen Nienhuys - [hidden email] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen_______________________________________________ lilypond-user mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
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## Re: "Controlled aleatorism" notation

 Han-Wen Nienhuys writes:  > >  > >     //         \\  > > ----||--|-------||                    |-----  > > ----||.-|---|--.||                    |-----  > > ----||.-|---|--.||~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|-----  > > ----||--o---|---||                    |-----  > > ----||------o---||                    |-----  > >     \\         //  > >  > > 1. is there any more suitable grob for this purpose?  >  > for what? Brackets or the wavy line? Sorry for lack of clearness. I meant brackets. I was looking for some graphical object which can be aligned to edges of StaffSymbol independently to duration of current note/rest/space. Rest seems to shift slightly to left if previous note-duration is longer. some non-rhythmical object would suit here better, i think. Of course - all these things can be done with extra-offset for every grob. But I want to avoid that.  >  > >  > > 2. Is there any way to typeset spanner exactly from one place to another, in manner that  > >    it starts at \stopStaff and stops at \startStaff ?  >  > why don't you change the number of stafflines to 1 and start a new  > staff? Sounds reasonable  > Another option is to override the stencil callback for StaffSymbol. this too  >  > If you have problems with this, I can cook up a sponsored aleatoric  > example .ly , but I guess there will be lots of people eager to  > demonstrate their elite L1l33P0nd ski11z :) They are my only hope. PEOPLE WITH ELITE LILY-SKILZ, where are you!!??! ;) TB:  > At least in the US, the popularity was due, IMO, to the fact that this  > sort of thing can get you (at least the appearance of) some rhythmic  > complexity without having to scatter a bunch of tuplets everywhere. I would rather think of it as a coloristic effect than rhythmic complexity. On the other hand why to write lots of (strange) tuplets which would be performed approximately? and on the other other hand - very few people "unfold" trills... :) And at last: I believe this is available in lilypond? Thanks for response, Regards, /ak/ _______________________________________________ lilypond-user mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
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## Re: "Controlled aleatorism" notation

 Andrzej Kopec wrote: > Han-Wen Nienhuys writes: >  > > >  > >     //         \\ >  > > ----||--|-------||                    |----- >  > > ----||.-|---|--.||                    |----- >  > > ----||.-|---|--.||~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|----- >  > > ----||--o---|---||                    |----- >  > > ----||------o---||                    |----- >  > >     \\         // >  > > >  > > 1. is there any more suitable grob for this purpose? >  > >  > for what? Brackets or the wavy line? > > Sorry for lack of clearness. I meant brackets. I was looking for some graphical object > which can be aligned to edges of StaffSymbol independently to duration of current > note/rest/space. Rest seems to shift slightly to left if previous note-duration is > longer. some non-rhythmical object would suit here better, i think. Your best bet would be the barline, I guess. --   Han-Wen Nienhuys - [hidden email] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen_______________________________________________ lilypond-user mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user