duration longer than meter?

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duration longer than meter?

Vivyan
I need these notes to fit within the same meter? How can I stop lilypond from
pushing the notes out?

lower = \relative c {
  \clef bass
  \time 3/4

e2. <b' a'>4

}



--
Sent from: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/User-f3.html

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Re: duration longer than meter?

Jacques Menu Muzhic
Hello Vivyan,

You’ll be better off with:

\version "2.19.58"

lower = \relative c {
 \clef bass
 \time 3/4

e2 <b' a'>4

}

{ \lower }


JM

> Le 3 févr. 2018 à 19:08, Vivyan <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
> I need these notes to fit within the same meter? How can I stop lilypond from
> pushing the notes out?
>
> lower = \relative c {
>  \clef bass
>  \time 3/4
>
> e2. <b' a'>4
>
> }
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/User-f3.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> lilypond-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user


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Re: duration longer than meter?

Simon Albrecht-2
In reply to this post by Vivyan
Hi Joel,

first: that’s not a minimal example. As you gave it, it only defines a
variable and doesn’t print anything.


On 03.02.2018 19:08, Vivyan wrote:
> I need these notes to fit within the same meter?

Sorry, but that doesn’t make sense. A dotted half note and a quarter
note are more than what fits in a 3/4 measure. Are the durations and
time signature correct? If yes, what are you trying to do?

Best, Simon

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Re: duration longer than meter?

Vivyan
<http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/file/t5486/Screen_Shot_2018-02-03_at_19.png>

This excerpt is from Gymnopedie which is in 3/4 but still, this notation is
involved. I'm just trying to write it into lilypond.



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Re: duration longer than meter?

Blöchl Bernhard
In reply to this post by Vivyan
Do not waste your time! I argue the majority does not want to discuss
that topic seriously. Read the whole thread starting with:

Betreff turning a blind eye to dotted note
Von Blöchl BernhardAdd contact
Absender lilypond-userAdd contact
An [hidden email] contact
Datum Mo 10:53

In my limited knowledge of music I think that bar is wrong because of
the dotted 8th note?

Regards


%\version "2.19.80"
\version "2.18.20"
mus = \relative c'' {
d4  cis8  c8  b8. ais8  a  gis
}
<<
   \new Voice \mus




Am 03.02.2018 19:08, schrieb Vivyan:

> I need these notes to fit within the same meter? How can I stop
> lilypond from
> pushing the notes out?
>
> lower = \relative c {
>   \clef bass
>   \time 3/4
>
> e2. <b' a'>4
>
> }
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/User-f3.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> lilypond-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

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RE: duration longer than meter?

Mark Stephen Mrotek
In reply to this post by Vivyan
Vivyan,

The quarter notes must be coded as a separate voice - which they are in the
original.

Mark


-----Original Message-----
From: lilypond-user
[mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
Vivyan
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2018 11:15 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: duration longer than meter?

<http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/file/t5486/Screen_Shot_2018-02-03_at_
19.png>

This excerpt is from Gymnopedie which is in 3/4 but still, this notation is
involved. I'm just trying to write it into lilypond.



--
Sent from: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/User-f3.html

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Re: duration longer than meter?

N. Andrew Walsh
In reply to this post by Blöchl Bernhard
Bernhard, I'm not sure to what your first statement refers, but regarding the second, the issue here is that Vivyan is reading the measure wrong. There are two parallel voices in the linked image:


On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 8:14 PM, Vivyan <[hidden email]> wrote:

This excerpt is from Gymnopedie which is in 3/4 but still, this notation is
involved. I'm just trying to write it into lilypond.


One voice is the two dotted half notes; the other is the quarter-rest and two quarters. 

Vivyan, see NR 1.5.2: http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/multiple-voices for how to encode multiple voices in the same bar (and my previous message for how to do cross-staff notes). 

Cheers,

A

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Re: duration longer than meter?

Blöchl Bernhard
In reply to this post by Vivyan
I only have some limited knowledge of music, have transcribed
Gymnopedies repeatedly in the past. To my knowledge there are two
different voices, for example one with a pointed half note and  and the
second voice is a half note with a quarter rest. Your example might be
an error, Have you check different editions for your example?

\relative c {
   \clef bass
   \time 3/4or
e2. <b' a'>4

}
for
Am 03.02.2018 19:08, schrieb Vivyan

> I need these notes to fit within the same meter? How can I stop
> lilypond from
> pushing the notes out?
>
> lower = \relative c {
>   \clef bass
>   \time 3/4
>
> e2. <b' a'>4
>
> }
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/User-f3.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> lilypond-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

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Re: duration longer than meter?

Simon Albrecht-2
In reply to this post by Vivyan
On 03.02.2018 20:14, Vivyan wrote:
> This excerpt is from Gymnopedie which is in 3/4 but still, this notation is
> involved. I'm just trying to write it into lilypond.

Perhaps you should learn how to read music before copying it.

Best, Simon

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Re: duration longer than meter?

Blöchl Bernhard
In reply to this post by N. Andrew Walsh
Agree!

But there are some exceptions concerning measures, refer to examples of
Chopin and Tschaikowsky ... Great names! But the still unanswered
question is how to notate that with lilypond. Not a a complain, but a
serious question.


Am 03.02.2018 20:23, schrieb N. Andrew Walsh:

> Bernhard, I'm not sure to what your first statement refers, but
> regarding the second, the issue here is that Vivyan is reading the
> measure wrong. There are two parallel voices in the linked image:
>
> On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 8:14 PM,
> Vivyan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> This excerpt is from Gymnopedie which is in 3/4 but still, this
>> notation is
>> involved. I'm just trying to write it into lilypond.
>
> One voice is the two dotted half notes; the other is the quarter-rest
> and two quarters. 
>
> Vivyan, see NR
> 1.5.2: http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/multiple-voices
> [1] for how to encode multiple voices in the same bar (and my previous
> message for how to do cross-staff notes). 
>
> Cheers,
>
> A
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1]
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/multiple-voices

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Re: duration longer than meter?

Blöchl Bernhard
In reply to this post by Vivyan
Please check
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/multiple-voices.html
If you are new to lilypond, on the bottom you can change the language of
the manual.

Am 03.02.2018 19:08, schrieb Vivyan:

> I need these notes to fit within the same meter? How can I stop
> lilypond from
> pushing the notes out?
>
> lower = \relative c {
>   \clef bass
>   \time 3/4
>
> e2. <b' a'>4
>
> }
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/User-f3.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> lilypond-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

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Re: duration longer than meter?

Stefano Troncaro
In reply to this post by Simon Albrecht-2
Hi Vivyan. 

Although others have already pointed out that in this example you'll be better off using simultaneous voices, I'll answer your original question by saying that Lilypond allows you to modify the length of a note. For example: e2.*1/3 will show a dotted half-note while occupying one third of that duration, meaning it will take the same space as a quarter note. 

This being said, I have to emphasize that I would not advise you engrave this measure in this way, and use different voices instead.

I hope you find that useful,
Stéfano

On Feb 3, 2018 16:46, "Simon Albrecht" <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 03.02.2018 20:14, Vivyan wrote:
This excerpt is from Gymnopedie which is in 3/4 but still, this notation is
involved. I'm just trying to write it into lilypond.

Perhaps you should learn how to read music before copying it.

Best, Simon

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Re: duration longer than meter?

Simon Albrecht-2
In reply to this post by Blöchl Bernhard
On 03.02.2018 20:56, Blöchl Bernhard wrote:
> Please check
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/multiple-voices.html
> If you are new to lilypond, on the bottom you can change the language
> of the manual.

If he were new to LilyPond, he’d be better off reading
<http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/learning/voices-contain-music>,
in conjunction with the rest of the Learning Manual.

Best, Simon

>
> Am 03.02.2018 19:08, schrieb Vivyan:
>> I need these notes to fit within the same meter? How can I stop
>> lilypond from
>> pushing the notes out?
>>
>> lower = \relative c {
>>   \clef bass
>>   \time 3/4
>>
>> e2. <b' a'>4
>>
>> }
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/User-f3.html
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> lilypond-user mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>
> _______________________________________________
> lilypond-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user


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Re: duration longer than meter?

Blöchl Bernhard
In reply to this post by Stefano Troncaro
Tricky! Thanks! Might help in some (filthy) notation situations.

Am 03.02.2018 20:58, schrieb Stefano Troncaro:

> Hi Vivyan. 
>
> Although others have already pointed out that in this example you'll
> be better off using simultaneous voices, I'll answer your original
> question by saying that Lilypond allows you to modify the length of a
> note. For example: e2.*1/3 will show a dotted half-note while
> occupying one third of that duration, meaning it will take the same
> space as a quarter note. 
>
> This being said, I have to emphasize that I would not advise you
> engrave this measure in this way, and use different voices instead.
>
> I hope you find that useful,
> Stéfano
>
> On Feb 3, 2018 16:46, "Simon Albrecht" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 03.02.2018 20:14, Vivyan wrote:
>>
>>> This excerpt is from Gymnopedie which is in 3/4 but still, this
>>> notation is
>>> involved. I'm just trying to write it into lilypond.
>>
>> Perhaps you should learn how to read music before copying it.
>>
>> Best, Simon
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> lilypond-user mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user [1]
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>
> _______________________________________________
> lilypond-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

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Re: duration longer than meter?

Noeck
In reply to this post by Blöchl Bernhard
Hi Bernhard,

> refer to examples of Chopin and Tschaikowsky ...

Do you have an example for that?

You can do anything that makes sense in terms of music:

- two voices at the same time may look like more notes than fit the
  measure (as in the case of this thread).
- If it is unmetered music, you can use \cadenzaOn … \cadenzaOff
- If the meter changes without indication, you can \omit the
  TimeSignature and still have correct measure lengths.
- If it is a implicit triplet or other tuplets you can use \tuplet or
  \times.

I have never seen anything that does not fall into these categories.
Have you?

Best,
Joram

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Re: duration longer than meter?

Kieren MacMillan
In reply to this post by Vivyan
Hi Vivyan,

> <http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/file/t5486/Screen_Shot_2018-02-03_at_19.png>
>
> This excerpt is from Gymnopedie which is in 3/4 but still, this notation is
> involved. I'm just trying to write it into lilypond.

Those are three different voices: two have dotted half notes, and one has a quarter rest and two quarter notes — therefore, in each voice, the total number of beats is 3 (matching the 3/4 time signature).

Here's one way of accomplishing what you want:

\version "2.19.80"

\layout { ragged-right = ##f line-width = 2\in }

\new PianoStaff \with { \consists #Span_stem_engraver } <<
  \new Staff { \time 3/4 \clef treble << { \voiceOne f'2. } \new Voice { \voiceTwo r4 \crossStaff { d'4 <d' g'> } } >> \oneVoice }
  \new Staff { \time 3/4 \clef bass << { \voiceThree e,2. } { \voiceOne s4 \stemDown <b, a> <e b> } >> }
>>

Hope that helps!
Kieren.
________________________________

Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: [hidden email]


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Re: duration longer than meter?

Simon Albrecht-2
In reply to this post by Noeck
On 03.02.2018 21:22, Noeck wrote:
> - two voices at the same time may look like more notes than fit the
>    measure (as in the case of this thread).
> - If it is unmetered music, you can use \cadenzaOn … \cadenzaOff
> - If the meter changes without indication, you can \omit the
>    TimeSignature and still have correct measure lengths.
> - If it is a implicit triplet or other tuplets you can use \tuplet or
>    \times.

Scaled durations (as in 2.*2/3), empty chords and s rests are other tools.

Best, Simon

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Re: duration longer than meter?

Thomas Morley-2
In reply to this post by Blöchl Bernhard
2018-02-03 20:18 GMT+01:00 Blöchl Bernhard <[hidden email]>:
> Do not waste your time! I argue the majority does not want to discuss that
> topic seriously.

Welcome on my black-list.

> Read the whole thread starting with:
>
> Betreff         turning a blind eye to dotted note

Indeed, do so
http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/turning-a-blind-eye-to-dotted-note-td209224.html

-Harm

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Re: duration longer than meter?

Hans Åberg-2
In reply to this post by Vivyan

On 3 Feb 2018, at 20:14, Vivyan <[hidden email]> wrote:

<http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/file/t5486/Screen_Shot_2018-02-03_at_19.png

This excerpt is from Gymnopedie which is in 3/4 but still, this notation is
involved. I'm just trying to write it into lilypond.

Below a variation from Mutopia. It looks like the idea is to use the middle piano pedal, the sostenuto pedal, on the two first notes, and then use the so freed two hands on the rest. The composer may not indicate this, leaving it to the performer; editions may want to be more explicit.

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Re: duration longer than meter?

Blöchl Bernhard
In reply to this post by Noeck
A misunderstanding, sorry. Chopin etc was not MY argument. It was one in
the thread Thomas Morley thankfully referred to
http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/turning-a-blind-eye-to-dotted-note-td209224.html
setting me on his "black list". One of many arguments (Thomas Hämmerle,
correct, not to query:
"Situations like my tuplet example (even with tuplet bracket/beam
crossing a
barline) can be found in Chopin's works among others, *so notes
stretching
over barlines are, albeit rare, absolutely possible* and not necessarily
a
"mistake". "
I know that hangers as I had a student pianist friend as studied (not
music).
There is an interesting list
https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/25562/help-with-interpreting-notation-in-chopins-nocturne-op-9-no-2.
There are some more, Tchaikowsky and others, mostly errors of the
editors!
-------------------

But to repeat and to correct the perspective, my basic question kept
unanswered and I do not want to repeat vain discussions again, it does
not make sense!

For short:
Why does not message me lilypond a warning (or something else) if I do
this?
  \relative c'' {
  d4  cis8  c8  b8. ais8  a  gis
  }

I can work on i. e.
  \relative c'' {
  d4  cis8  c8  b8. ais8  a  gis a b c
  }
No problem for lilypond! That is beyond my understanding, to long and
fro black list.

That was the start of the thread Thomas Morley referred to above.
Slightly connected to the question "duration longer than meter?" Isn't
it?


Regards



Am 03.02.2018 21:22, schrieb Noeck:

> Hi Bernhard,
>
>> refer to examples of Chopin and Tschaikowsky ...
>
> Do you have an example for that?
>
> You can do anything that makes sense in terms of music:
>
> - two voices at the same time may look like more notes than fit the
>   measure (as in the case of this thread).
> - If it is unmetered music, you can use \cadenzaOn … \cadenzaOff
> - If the meter changes without indication, you can \omit the
>   TimeSignature and still have correct measure lengths.
> - If it is a implicit triplet or other tuplets you can use \tuplet or
>   \times.
>
> I have never seen anything that does not fall into these categories.
> Have you?
>
> Best,
> Joram
>
> _______________________________________________
> lilypond-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

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