dot changes break Gregorian notation

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dot changes break Gregorian notation

Werner LEMBERG

Joe,


your latest changes break the \augmentum stuff in Gregorian notation.
(Do a search for `augmentum' and compare the example on the web page
created from the current git with the one in
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.11/Documentation/user/lilypond-big-page

There are some other spacing problems with the Gregorian stuff -- are
you in the mood to handle this too?


    Werner


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Re: dot changes break Gregorian notation

Joe Neeman-2
On Wednesday 11 July 2007 17:18, Werner LEMBERG wrote:
> Joe,
>
>
> your latest changes break the \augmentum stuff in Gregorian notation.
> (Do a search for `augmentum' and compare the example on the web page
> created from the current git with the one in
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.11/Documentation/user/lilypond-big-page

Thanks for the heads-up; I'll have a look soon.

> There are some other spacing problems with the Gregorian stuff -- are
> you in the mood to handle this too?

Always happy to fix bugs, particularly if I'm already working on that code.
But I'm not really familiar with pre-Baroque notation so I would need to be
told exactly what needs fixing. It would be good if I had a decent pile of
examples, too, because I'm unlikely to come up with useful ones myself.

Joe


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Re: dot changes break Gregorian notation

Werner LEMBERG
> > There are some other spacing problems with the Gregorian stuff --
> > are you in the mood to handle this too?
>
> Always happy to fix bugs, particularly if I'm already working on
> that code.  But I'm not really familiar with pre-Baroque notation so
> I would need to be told exactly what needs fixing. It would be good
> if I had a decent pile of examples, too, because I'm unlikely to
> come up with useful ones myself.

OK.  I'll prepare something and send it to you together with a scan of
the source.

Another regression, BTW, is that now hyphens *always* appear between
lyrics syllables, at least in Gregorian notation.  Before your
changes, hyphens by default have been suppressed in case text
syllables can be placed near to each other.


    Werner


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Re: dot changes break Gregorian notation

Joe Neeman-2
In reply to this post by Werner LEMBERG
On Wednesday 11 July 2007 17:18, Werner LEMBERG wrote:
> Joe,
>
>
> your latest changes break the \augmentum stuff in Gregorian notation.

Thanks, this is fixed.


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Re: dot changes break Gregorian notation

Joe Neeman-2
In reply to this post by Werner LEMBERG
On Thursday 12 July 2007 07:02, Werner LEMBERG wrote:
> Another regression, BTW, is that now hyphens *always* appear between
> lyrics syllables, at least in Gregorian notation.  Before your
> changes, hyphens by default have been suppressed in case text
> syllables can be placed near to each other.

Thanks, fixed.


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Re: dot changes break Gregorian notation

Juergen Reuter
In reply to this post by Joe Neeman-2

Sorry for this late answer, but I am still overloaded with work... :-(

On Wed, 11 Jul 2007, Joe Neeman wrote:

> On Wednesday 11 July 2007 17:18, Werner LEMBERG wrote:
>> Joe,
>>
>>
>> your latest changes break the \augmentum stuff in Gregorian notation.
>> (Do a search for `augmentum' and compare the example on the web page
>> created from the current git with the one in
>> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.11/Documentation/user/lilypond-big-page
>
> Thanks for the heads-up; I'll have a look soon.
>

Thanks Werner for pointing that out and thanks Joe for looking into it!

I am also noticing that in the first table in manual Section 7.7.10.2
(Gregorian square neumes ligatures) the alignment of both the neumes and
the text is (again/still?) broken: the letters appear sometimes over the
neumes (e.g. in the line "3. Apostropha vel Stropha"), sometimes below the
neumes (e.g. in the line "7. Pes Quassus").  Furthermore, few separate
neumes collide (e.g. in the line "5. Clivis vel Flexa" the neumes that
are marked with letters "l" and "m").  I do not know if these problems are
related with your (otherwise excellent!) work; I just want to point out
that these things broke lately, compared to e.g. lily v2.10.  (N.B.: These
comments refer to the lily web site as of today, namely
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.11/Documentation/user/lilypond/Gregorian-square-neumes-ligatures
versus
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.10/Documentation/user/lilypond/Gregorian-square-neumes-ligatures
).

>> There are some other spacing problems with the Gregorian stuff -- are
>> you in the mood to handle this too?
>
> Always happy to fix bugs, particularly if I'm already working on that code.
> But I'm not really familiar with pre-Baroque notation so I would need to be
> told exactly what needs fixing. It would be good if I had a decent pile of
> examples, too, because I'm unlikely to come up with useful ones myself.
>

Most often, there is too much space after ligatures.  A good example is
the 2nd line of score in "7.7.12 Mensural contexts" in the 2.11.27 manual
(the "San - - - - ctus").  The problem is that a ligature consists of
multiple note heads that are collapsed into a single coherent set of
glyphs, while lily still tries to distribute remaining space *between*
these note heads, according to the rythmic duration of each note head.  As
a result, behind each ligature, the spaces for multiple note heads are
cumulated.

In fact, for computing the space between musical columns (and only for
computing the space), all note heads of a ligature should be considered
like a single note head with an unspecified duration (i.e. assume a
duration of 0).  On the other hand, for assigning ligature glyphs to
musical columns, durations do have to be considered, such that e.g.
ligatures in different lines of the score that start at the same time are
vertically aligned (this assignment to musical columns is already done by
the ligature implementation with the help of the
"Coherent_ligature_engraver::move_related_items_to_column" function).

There are surely more subtle spacing problems, but I think the above is
the most outstanding and pressing one.  If that one could be solved,
ancient music should hopefully look much better overall.

Hope that helps!

Greetings & thanks,
Juergen

> Joe
>
>
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