changing alignment of augmentation dots across multiple voices in the same staff

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changing alignment of augmentation dots across multiple voices in the same staff

Kieren MacMillan
Hello all,

In the two-voice situation (bottom staff) shown in the attached screenshot, I’d like the dot on the rest to *not* be vertically aligned with the dots on the notes.

1. I tried to find such a setting in the manual, but failed — what should I be looking for?

2. The disconnected behaviour appears to be the accepted practice: cf. Gould pg. 57, and defaults for Sibelius, Dorico, etc. Can we improve Lilypond’s defaults here?

Thanks,
Kieren.
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‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: [hidden email]


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Re: changing alignment of augmentation dots across multiple voices in the same staff

David Nalesnik
Kieren,

On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Kieren MacMillan <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello all,

In the two-voice situation (bottom staff) shown in the attached screenshot, I’d like the dot on the rest to *not* be vertically aligned with the dots on the notes.

1. I tried to find such a setting in the manual, but failed — what should I be looking for?


You provide no example to try this on, but what about moving the Dot_column_engraver to the Voice context instead of Staff?

Best,
David
 


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Re: changing alignment of augmentation dots across multiple voices in the same staff

Kieren MacMillan
Hi David,

> You provide no example to try this on

Didn’t want anyone to go through any coding effort; just needed someone smart to point me in the right direction.  =)

> but what about moving the Dot_column_engraver to the Voice context instead of Staff?

Worked like a charm — thanks!

Should this be the default?

Thanks,
Kieren.
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‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: [hidden email]


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Re: changing alignment of augmentation dots across multiple voices in the same staff

David Nalesnik
On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 11:28 AM, Kieren MacMillan
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi David,
>
>> You provide no example to try this on
>
> Didn’t want anyone to go through any coding effort; just needed someone smart to point me in the right direction.  =)
>
>> but what about moving the Dot_column_engraver to the Voice context instead of Staff?
>
> Worked like a charm — thanks!
>
> Should this be the default?

I would say so.  However, the situation is more complicated:

\version "2.19.59"

\layout {
  \context {
    \Staff
    \remove "Dot_column_engraver"
  }
  \context {
    \Voice
    \consists "Dot_column_engraver"
  }
}

<< c''2. \\ a'2. \\ b' >>

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Re: changing alignment of augmentation dots across multiple voices in the same staff

Simon Albrecht-2
In reply to this post by Kieren MacMillan
Am 23.05.2017 um 18:28 schrieb Kieren MacMillan:
> Should this be the default?

I don’t think so, but maybe a context property to turn off alignment of
dotted rests would be useful?
Best, Simon

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Re: changing alignment of augmentation dots across multiple voices in the same staff

Kieren MacMillan
In reply to this post by David Nalesnik
Hi David,

> I would say so.  However, the situation is more complicated:

#ugh #IsntItAlways

> [Simon:] maybe a context property to turn off alignment of dotted rests would be useful?

That sounds like it might work!

Kieren.
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Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: [hidden email]


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Re: changing alignment of augmentation dots across multiple voices in the same staff

David Nalesnik
On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 2:51 PM, Kieren MacMillan
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi David,
>
>> I would say so.  However, the situation is more complicated:
>
> #ugh #IsntItAlways
>
>> [Simon:] maybe a context property to turn off alignment of dotted rests would be useful?
>
> That sounds like it might work!
>

 I agree with the idea of a context property, but it would switch
between the current default (alignment by Staff always) and a new
default which respects Gould's recommendations, which apply to more
than rests.  An alignment by voice would also be used if the dotted
quarter rest in Kieren's image were replaced by a dotted note or
notes.  Additionally, by Gould's recommendation, the dots should align
in cases where the voices have single notes (as in my counterexample
above).

-David

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Re: changing alignment of augmentation dots across multiple voices in the same staff

Carl Sorensen-3
On 5/24/17 7:49 AM, "David Nalesnik" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 2:51 PM, Kieren MacMillan
><[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi David,
>>
>>> I would say so.  However, the situation is more complicated:
>>
>> #ugh #IsntItAlways
>>
>>> [Simon:] maybe a context property to turn off alignment of dotted
>>>rests would be useful?
>>
>> That sounds like it might work!
>>
>
> I agree with the idea of a context property, but it would switch
>between the current default (alignment by Staff always) and a new
>default which respects Gould's recommendations, which apply to more
>than rests.  An alignment by voice would also be used if the dotted
>quarter rest in Kieren's image were replaced by a dotted note or
>notes.  Additionally, by Gould's recommendation, the dots should align
>in cases where the voices have single notes (as in my counterexample
>above).

This would not be a simple change.  The engraver creates a dot column; the
dot column has only a y location for each dot.  The x location is handled
by the collision resolution system.

Furthermore, the current approach (put the engraver in either the Voice or
Staff context) can't be switched at a given moment in time, IIUC.

Perhaps we move the dot column engraver to the Voice context, and then
have a Staff context property something like AlignAllDotColumns.  I don't
know such a property would be implemented, but it seems to have the
appropriate flexibility to allow us to set the behavior at any time.

Thanks,

Carl


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