Whole-time rest and 3/4 time in 2.8.1

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Whole-time rest and 3/4 time in 2.8.1

Bugzilla from tvalusek@seznam.cz
Hello,

I stumbled on another weird thing with 2.8.1 on Windows. After
processing following code, I get two extra beats:

%Begin code
\version "2.8.1"
\relative c''' {
\clef treble
\key g \major
\time 3/4

R1 R1
r4 r g
}
%End code

Am I doing something wrong?

Tomas Valusek


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Re: Whole-time rest and 3/4 time in 2.8.1

Graham Percival-2

On 8-Apr-06, at 1:52 PM, Tomas Valusek wrote:

> \time 3/4
>
> R1 R1
> r4 r g
> }
> %End code
>
> Am I doing something wrong?

You want to use
R2.

R1 produces 4 beats, just like r1.  R2. produces 3 beats.

I'll clarify this in the docs.

Cheers,
- Graham



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Re: Whole-time rest and 3/4 time in 2.8.1

Jay Hamilton, Sound and Silence
In reply to this post by Bugzilla from tvalusek@seznam.cz
Tomas - seems like 2.8 is much pickier than in the past
and so if you have a time signature of 3/4 all the
'whole measure' rests have to be dotted half rests
instead of whole (note) type rests.
Jay

Tomas Valusek wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I stumbled on another weird thing with 2.8.1 on Windows. After
> processing following code, I get two extra beats:
>
> %Begin code
> \version "2.8.1"
> \relative c''' {
> \clef treble
> \key g \major
> \time 3/4
>
> R1 R1
> r4 r g
> }
> %End code
>
> Am I doing something wrong?
>
> Tomas Valusek
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> lilypond-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>
>

--
Childhood is a Journey not a race- Emma Sadinsky aged 8
Jay Hamilton
Sound and Silence
206-328-7694
www.soundand.com


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Re: Whole-time rest and 3/4 time in 2.8.1

Graham Percival-2

On 8-Apr-06, at 4:41 PM, Jay Hamilton, Sound and Silence wrote:

> Tomas - seems like 2.8 is much pickier than in the past and so if you
> have a time signature of 3/4 all the 'whole measure' rests have to be
> dotted half rests instead of whole (note) type rests.

This is incorrect information.  Lilypond has never treated R1 as a
`whole measure' rest in 3/4 time; this has nothing to do with 2.8 being
"pickier".

Cheers,
- Graham



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Re: Whole-time rest and 3/4 time in 2.8.1

Bugzilla from tvalusek@seznam.cz
In reply to this post by Graham Percival-2
Hello,

and thanks for your help.

> You want to use
> R2.
>
> R1 produces 4 beats, just like r1.  R2. produces 3 beats.
>
> I'll clarify this in the docs.

But the point of whole-bar rest is that composer/copyist doesn't need to
care about time signature when using them - at least, that's what I
explain to my pupils why it is possible to see the whole rest in bars
containing less than 4 quarter beats.

Tomas Valusek


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Re: Whole-time rest and 3/4 time in 2.8.1

Graham Percival-2

On 8-Apr-06, at 8:13 PM, Tomas Valusek wrote:

>> You want to use
>> R2.
>> R1 produces 4 beats, just like r1.  R2. produces 3 beats.
>> I'll clarify this in the docs.
>
> But the point of whole-bar rest is that composer/copyist doesn't need
> to care about time signature when using them - at least, that's what I
> explain to my pupils why it is possible to see the whole rest in bars
> containing less than 4 quarter beats.

Yes, but the whole point of the duration "1" in LilyPond is that it
occupies four quarter notes.  :)

In all seriousness, having a \wholeBarRest command would involve a
nontrivial amount of extra programming.  As long as the documentation
is clear as to what R1 vs. R2. does, I think it's ok.  BTW, when lily
2.8.2 comes out, please look at the docs and let me know if it's clear
(my updates won't be on the web until then).  I'm quite open to
changing the docs, but you'll need to tell me exactly what to change.

Cheers,
- Graham



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Re: Whole-time rest and 3/4 time in 2.8.1

David Raleigh Arnold-2
On Sunday 09 April 2006 00:16, Graham Percival wrote:
>
> On 8-Apr-06, at 8:13 PM, Tomas Valusek wrote:
>
> >> You want to use
> >> R2.
> >> R1 produces 4 beats, just like r1.  R2. produces 3 beats.
> >> I'll clarify this in the docs.
> >
> > But the point of whole-bar rest is that composer/copyist doesn't
need
> > to care about time signature when using them - at least, that's what
I
> > explain to my pupils why it is possible to see the whole rest in
bars

> > containing less than 4 quarter beats.
>
> Yes, but the whole point of the duration "1" in LilyPond is that it
> occupies four quarter notes.  :)
>
> In all seriousness, having a \wholeBarRest command would involve a
> nontrivial amount of extra programming.  As long as the documentation
> is clear as to what R1 vs. R2. does, I think it's ok.  BTW, when lily
> 2.8.2 comes out, please look at the docs and let me know if it's clear
> (my updates won't be on the web until then).  I'm quite open to
> changing the docs, but you'll need to tell me exactly what to change.

Wouldn't

threst = \times 4/3{R2.}

do it?  daveA

--
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Re: Whole-time rest and 3/4 time in 2.8.1

Graham Percival-2

On 9-Apr-06, at 4:26 PM, David Raleigh Arnold wrote:

> On Sunday 09 April 2006 00:16, Graham Percival wrote:
>> In all seriousness, having a \wholeBarRest command would involve a
>> nontrivial amount of extra programming.
> Wouldn't
>
> threst = \times 4/3{R2.}

I think you mean
threst = \times 3/4 {R1}
or
therest = R1*3/4

That would certainly give you a full-bar rest in 3/4 time, but the big
problem would be making "threst" detect what time signature it was in,
and modify the "\times x/y" accordingly.

Cheers,
- Graham



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Re: Whole-time rest and 3/4 time in 2.8.1

Carrick Patterson
Actually this does raise a question I have wondered about: What is the
difference between R1 and r1 (or R2 and r2 or whatever)? Seems like in 4/4
you'd get a full-bar rest with either R1 or r1. I will say I've not
experimented that much, and I always use R1*x (or whatever) when doing
multiple-bar rests.


Quoting Graham Percival <[hidden email]>:

>
> On 9-Apr-06, at 4:26 PM, David Raleigh Arnold wrote:
>
> > On Sunday 09 April 2006 00:16, Graham Percival wrote:
> >> In all seriousness, having a \wholeBarRest command would involve a
> >> nontrivial amount of extra programming.
> > Wouldn't
> >
> > threst = \times 4/3{R2.}
>
> I think you mean
> threst = \times 3/4 {R1}
> or
> therest = R1*3/4
>
> That would certainly give you a full-bar rest in 3/4 time, but the big
> problem would be making "threst" detect what time signature it was in,
> and modify the "\times x/y" accordingly.
>
> Cheers,
> - Graham
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> lilypond-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>


--
Carrick Patterson
Little Rock AR


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Re: Whole-time rest and 3/4 time in 2.8.1

Graham Percival-2

On 9-Apr-06, at 5:38 PM, Carrick Patterson wrote:

> Actually this does raise a question I have wondered about: What is the
> difference between R1 and r1 (or R2 and r2 or whatever)?

r1 produces a four-beat rest that is typeset at the beginning of the
measure; R1 produces whole bar rest in 4/4 time (this looks slightly
different than r1) that is printed in the middle of the measure.

Cheers,
- Graham



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Re: Whole-time rest and 3/4 time in 2.8.1

gruen0
In reply to this post by Graham Percival-2
You use \time to define the time signature, so maybe you could alter  
it so that it re-defines a whole-bar-rest function to use the  
appropriate multiplier.

For instance,
     \time 3/4
would have the side-effect of defining
     wholeBarRest = \times 3/4 {R1}


--Aaron V.



On Apr 9, 2006, at 16:55, Graham Percival wrote:

>
> On 9-Apr-06, at 4:26 PM, David Raleigh Arnold wrote:
>
>> On Sunday 09 April 2006 00:16, Graham Percival wrote:
>>> In all seriousness, having a \wholeBarRest command would involve a
>>> nontrivial amount of extra programming.
>> Wouldn't
>>
>> threst = \times 4/3{R2.}
>
> I think you mean
> threst = \times 3/4 {R1}
> or
> therest = R1*3/4
>
> That would certainly give you a full-bar rest in 3/4 time, but the  
> big problem would be making "threst" detect what time signature it  
> was in, and modify the "\times x/y" accordingly.
>
> Cheers,
> - Graham
>


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