What's the least input into a score to get midi output added?

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What's the least input into a score to get midi output added?

Jay Hamilton, Sound and Silence
Hello-
I've been reading the manual (2.6.1)
I've looked at examples
But if all I want is the simple single line score, a pdf and midi output
what is the least I need to add?
It looks like I have to add lines and lines of stuff just to add the
midi out.
Maybe, I hope, I'm wrong?
Thanks.
Jay

--
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Jay Hamilton
Sound and Silence
206-328-7694
www.soundand.com



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Re: What's the least input into a score to get midi output added?

Graham Percival

On 27-Jul-05, at 3:00 PM, Jay Hamilton, Sound and Silence wrote:

> I've been reading the manual (2.6.1)
> I've looked at examples
> But if all I want is the simple single line score, a pdf and midi
> output what is the least I need to add?
> It looks like I have to add lines and lines of stuff just to add the
> midi out.

Please look at the "Example templates".  They produce pdf and midi.

- Graham



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Re: What's the least input into a score to get midi output added?

Jay Hamilton, Sound and Silence
When I copy and paste from the first template example and then copy and
paste my chosen notes I get

 error: syntax error, unexpected STRING
\new Staff
           \melody

When I delete those parts I get

A lovely pdf file no error messages and no midi even though I now have
at the end
\score {
\layout { }
\midi { \tempo 4=60 }
}


So the example template in this instance does not seem to work at I
expect.  Which is why I asked- what's the minimum?

Jay


Graham Percival wrote:

>
> On 27-Jul-05, at 3:00 PM, Jay Hamilton, Sound and Silence wrote:
>
>> I've been reading the manual (2.6.1)
>> I've looked at examples
>> But if all I want is the simple single line score, a pdf and midi
>> output what is the least I need to add?
>> It looks like I have to add lines and lines of stuff just to add the
>> midi out.
>
>
> Please look at the "Example templates".  They produce pdf and midi.
>
> - Graham
>
>

--
Childhood is a Journey not a race- Emma Sadinsky aged 8
Jay Hamilton
Sound and Silence
206-328-7694
www.soundand.com



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Re: What's the least input into a score to get midi output added?

Graham Percival

On 27-Jul-05, at 6:23 PM, Jay Hamilton, Sound and Silence wrote:

> When I copy and paste from the first template example and then copy
> and paste my chosen notes I get
>
> error: syntax error, unexpected STRING
> \new Staff
>           \melody

Please copy the entire example.

> When I delete those parts I get

Don't just randomly delete parts!  If one of the example templates
doesn't work as you
expect, then there's a big problem.  Investigate why it doesn't work --
is it a lilypond
bug, or are you mistaken about how lilypond works, or did you forget to
copy something,
or...?

> So the example template in this instance does not seem to work at I
> expect.  Which is why I asked- what's the minimum?

The minimum is simply
\midi{}


Please look carefully at a few of the example templates; I think it
would help you
to understand how lilypond input files are constructed.

- Graham



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Re: What's the least input into a score to get midi output added?

Paul Scott-3
In reply to this post by Jay Hamilton, Sound and Silence
Jay Hamilton, Sound and Silence wrote:

> When I copy and paste from the first template example and then copy
> and paste my chosen notes I get
>
> error: syntax error, unexpected STRING
> \new Staff
>           \melody
>
> When I delete those parts I get
>
> A lovely pdf file no error messages and no midi even though I now have
> at the end
> \score {

There needs to be some music right here.

> \layout { }
> \midi { \tempo 4=60 }
> }

Paul Scott



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Re: What's the least input into a score to get midi output added?

Bec and John
In reply to this post by Jay Hamilton, Sound and Silence
Hi Jim,

I just tried the "Notes only" template and got an error that I commonly get when I copy and paste from the Lilypond manual - it doesn't like the " ’ " character that is in the manual. I have to manually delete them and reinsert " ' ". Then it typesets fine. Below is the "Notes only" template with the modification, which works fine on my installation of Lilypond 2.7.3 on OS 10.4.

\version "2.6.0"

melody = \relative c'
{
    \clef treble
    \key c \major
    \time 4/4

    a4 b c d
}

\score
{
    \new Staff \melody
    \layout
    {
       
    }
    \midi { \tempo 4=60 }
}

- John

When I copy and paste from the first template example and then copy and paste my chosen notes I get

error: syntax error, unexpected STRING
\new Staff
          \melody

When I delete those parts I get

A lovely pdf file no error messages and no midi even though I now have at the end
\score {
\layout { }
\midi { \tempo 4=60 }
}


So the example template in this instance does not seem to work at I expect.  Which is why I asked- what's the minimum?

Jay

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Re: What's the least input into a score to get midi output added?

Jay Hamilton, Sound and Silence
YES!
That's problem/issue/solution thanks- I did get it to work after that
correction.
Hooray.
Jay

Bec and John wrote:

> Hi Jim,
>
> I just tried the "Notes only" template and got an error that I
> commonly get when I copy and paste from the Lilypond manual - it
> doesn't like the " ’ " character that is in the manual. I have to
> manually delete them and reinsert " ' ". Then it typesets fine. Below
> is the "Notes only" template with the modification, which works fine
> on my installation of Lilypond 2.7.3 on OS 10.4.
>
> \version "2.6.0"
>
> melody = \relative c'
> {
>     \clef treble
>     \key c \major
>     \time 4/4
>
>     a4 b c d
> }
>
> \score
> {
>     \new Staff \melody
>     \layout
>     {
>        
>     }
>     \midi { \tempo 4=60 }
> }
>
> - John
>
>> When I copy and paste from the first template example and then copy
>> and paste my chosen notes I get
>>
>> error: syntax error, unexpected STRING
>> \new Staff
>>           \melody
>>
>> When I delete those parts I get
>>
>> A lovely pdf file no error messages and no midi even though I now
>> have at the end
>> \score {
>> \layout { }
>> \midi { \tempo 4=60 }
>> }
>>
>>
>> So the example template in this instance does not seem to work at I
>> expect.  Which is why I asked- what's the minimum?
>>
>> Jay
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>lilypond-user mailing list
>[hidden email]
>http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>  
>

--
Childhood is a Journey not a race- Emma Sadinsky aged 8
Jay Hamilton
Sound and Silence
206-328-7694
www.soundand.com



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Re: What's the least input into a score to get midi output added?

Paul Scott-3
Jay Hamilton, Sound and Silence wrote:

> YES!
> That's problem/issue/solution thanks- I did get it to work after that
> correction.
> Hooray.
> Jay
>
> Bec and John wrote:
>
>> Hi Jim,
>>
>> I just tried the "Notes only" template and got an error that I
>> commonly get when I copy and paste from the Lilypond manual - it
>> doesn't like the " ? " character that is in the manual. I have to
>> manually delete them and reinsert " ' ". Then it typesets fine. Below
>> is the "Notes only" template with the modification, which works fine
>> on my installation of Lilypond 2.7.3 on OS 10.4.
>>
>> \version "2.6.0"
>>
>> melody = \relative c'
>> {
>>     \clef treble
>>     \key c \major
>>     \time 4/4
>>
>>     a4 b c d
>> }
>>
>> \score
>> {
>>     \new Staff \melody
>>     \layout
>>     {
>>            }
>>     \midi { \tempo 4=60 }
>> }
>>
>> - John
>>
>>> When I copy and paste from the first template example and then copy
>>> and paste my chosen notes I get
>>>
>>> error: syntax error, unexpected STRING
>>> \new Staff
>>>           \melody
>>>
>>> When I delete those parts I get
>>>
>>> A lovely pdf file no error messages and no midi even though I now
>>> have at the end
>>> \score {
>>> \layout { }
>>> \midi { \tempo 4=60 }
>>> }
>>>
>>>
>>> So the example template in this instance does not seem to work at I
>>> expect.  Which is why I asked- what's the minimum?
>>>
>>> Jay
>>
This is why some lists insist on inline posting.  Top-posting is very
confusing.  I don't know what Jay fixed.

Paul Scott



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RE: What's the least input into a score to get midi output added?

Fairchild
In reply to this post by Bec and John
Message
I, too, have copied code from documentation that caused incomprehensible errors messages eventually tracked to the wrong single quote character.  Very annoying.  I've thought it unique to my technique.  Can the documentation be fixed?  Or, better, can Lily be fixed to accept all single quote characters interchangeably?
 
                                  - Bruce
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: lilypond-user-bounces+fairchild=[hidden email] [mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+fairchild=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bec and John
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 9:04 PM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email] list
Subject: Re: What's the least input into a score to get midi output added?

Hi Jim,

I just tried the "Notes only" template and got an error that I commonly get when I copy and paste from the Lilypond manual - it doesn't like the " ’ " character that is in the manual. I have to manually delete them and reinsert " ' ". Then it typesets fine. Below is the "Notes only" template with the modification, which works fine on my installation of Lilypond 2.7.3 on OS 10.4.

\version "2.6.0"

melody = \relative c'
{
    \clef treble
    \key c \major
    \time 4/4

    a4 b c d
}

\score
{
    \new Staff \melody
    \layout
    {
       
    }
    \midi { \tempo 4=60 }
}

- John

When I copy and paste from the first template example and then copy and paste my chosen notes I get

error: syntax error, unexpected STRING
\new Staff
          \melody

When I delete those parts I get

A lovely pdf file no error messages and no midi even though I now have at the end
\score {
\layout { }
\midi { \tempo 4=60 }
}


So the example template in this instance does not seem to work at I expect.  Which is why I asked- what's the minimum?

Jay

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Re: Bad sourcefont [WAS:]What's the least input into a score to get midi output added?

Donald Axel
On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 14:08:33 -0500
Fairchild wrote:

>  Or, better, can Lily be fixed to accept all single
> quote characters interchangeably?

That is not a good idea IMHO.

Single quotes beyond the standard ' are not widespread common
heritage. 0x92 did not show up as a single quote in my software
and besides the problem could extend to all other kinds of bad
glyphs which are difficult for the beginner to distinguish from
each other (example given: l,1,|,I, or the other often
difficult-to-read series: Ø,Ö,Ô,0,O,Q,o,ò,ó,ö,õ,ô...)

Maybe most people will have difficulties reading the above string
because we use lousy fonts?

It is necessary to tell people to use readable fonts. You may
laugh, I use Linux 12x24 (Fixed/Sony) in order to get past such
mistakes. The smaller 8x16 version of Fixed/Sony is excellent,
too.

--
dax2-tele2adsl:dk -- http://d-axel.dk/  Donald Axel


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Re: What's the least input into a score to get midi output added?

Han-Wen Nienhuys
In reply to this post by Fairchild
Fairchild wrote:
>     be fixed to accept all single quote characters interchangeably?

no.


--
  Han-Wen Nienhuys - [hidden email] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen


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Re: What's the least input into a score to get midi output added?

Donald Axel
In reply to this post by Bec and John
On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 22:03:59 -0400
Bec wrote:

> I just tried the "Notes only" template and got an error that I  
> commonly get when I copy and paste from the Lilypond manual - it  
> doesn't like the " ’ " character that is in the manual. I have to  
> manually delete them and reinsert " ' ". Then it typesets fine. Below  
> is the "Notes only" template with the modification, which works fine  
> on my installation of Lilypond 2.7.3 on OS 10.4.

Oh! Now I can see what example was used here. In my browser cut
and paste worked very well. The error which Jay Hamilton, Sound
and Silence" experienced in the first place must come from
something different than the manual or template source.

There may be a browser-bug (automatic replacement of single-quote
into accent aigue.)

If you experience something like that then

    USE ONLY TEXTMODE-CUT+PASTE!

Anyway beginner readers should fetch a bunch of simple examples
in some special tutorial-snippet archive. Sebastiano Vigna is
working on that! Han-Wen mentioned it to me earlier. I must say
this is useful! Here is the link:


http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/html/whatsthis.html


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Example used:
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

\version "2.4.5"

melody = \relative c'
{
     \clef treble
     \key c \major
     \time 4/4

     a4 b c d
}

\score
{
     \new Staff \melody
     \layout
     {
         raggedright = ##t
     }
     \midi { \tempo 4=60 }
}


--
This message was created with VIM and Sylpheed -- http://d-axel.dk/pub/music


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RE: What's the least input into a score to get midi output added?

Fairchild
In reply to this post by Han-Wen Nienhuys
Overwhelming and convincing argument.

                        - Bruce

-----Original Message-----
From: Han-Wen Nienhuys [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 5:13 PM
To: Fairchild
Cc: 'Bec and John'; [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: What's the least input into a score to get midi output added?


Fairchild wrote:
>     be fixed to accept all single quote characters interchangeably?

no.


--
  Han-Wen Nienhuys - [hidden email] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen





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Re: What's the least input into a score to get midi output added?

Bec and John
In reply to this post by Donald Axel
Hi Dax2,

I use the PDF manual rather than the web browser.

The archive is a great idea. If I may recommend, it'd be nice if you could browse by topic - as the archive grows it'll be unreasonable to just go through a long list (it's already very long).

- John


Oh! Now I can see what example was used here. In my browser cut
and paste worked very well. The error which Jay Hamilton, Sound
and Silence" experienced in the first place must come from
something different than the manual or template source.

There may be a browser-bug (automatic replacement of single-quote
into accent aigue.)

If you experience something like that then

    USE ONLY TEXTMODE-CUT+PASTE!

Anyway beginner readers should fetch a bunch of simple examples
in some special tutorial-snippet archive. Sebastiano Vigna is
working on that! Han-Wen mentioned it to me earlier. I must say
this is useful! Here is the link:



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Re: What's the least input into a score to get midi output added?

Jay Hamilton, Sound and Silence
D-- & John
I did use text mode cut and paste from the pdf and that's where the
problem came from.
AND I need to check out the archive too.
Thanks
Jay

Bec and John wrote:

> Hi Dax2,
>
> I use the PDF manual rather than the web browser.
>
> The archive is a great idea. If I may recommend, it'd be nice if you
> could browse by topic - as the archive grows it'll be unreasonable to
> just go through a long list (it's already very long).
>
> - John
>
>
>> Oh! Now I can see what example was used here. In my browser cut
>> and paste worked very well. The error which Jay Hamilton, Sound
>> and Silence" experienced in the first place must come from
>> something different than the manual or template source.
>>
>> There may be a browser-bug (automatic replacement of single-quote
>> into accent aigue.)
>>
>> If you experience something like that then
>>
>>     USE ONLY TEXTMODE-CUT+PASTE!
>>
>> Anyway beginner readers should fetch a bunch of simple examples
>> in some special tutorial-snippet archive. Sebastiano Vigna is
>> working on that! Han-Wen mentioned it to me earlier. I must say
>> this is useful! Here is the link:
>>
>>
>> http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/html/whatsthis.html
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>lilypond-user mailing list
>[hidden email]
>http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>  
>

--
Childhood is a Journey not a race- Emma Sadinsky aged 8
Jay Hamilton
Sound and Silence
206-328-7694
www.soundand.com



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Re: What's the least input into a score to get midi output added?

Han-Wen Nienhuys
In reply to this post by Fairchild
Fairchild wrote:
> Overwhelming and convincing argument.

I would like to see the argument for the opposite, since there are so
many characters that are alike. We have the n-dash and the em-dash  for
the hyphen, and unicode (being 31-bit) doubtlessly will have tons of oth
er similar characters. How do you suggest to go about and find them all?
What will this gain in clarity of the language definition, and how do
you propose to deal with ambiguities in the syntax (the high ascii chars
normally being part of a string.)

In any event, the definition of ' for Scheme (i.e. #   in LilyPond) is
set by the R5RS standard. We cannot change that.

In short, I think it is bad idea, and I wish people would just trust my
judgement for once.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Han-Wen Nienhuys [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 5:13 PM
> To: Fairchild
> Cc: 'Bec and John'; [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: What's the least input into a score to get midi output added?
>
>
> Fairchild wrote:
>
>>    be fixed to accept all single quote characters interchangeably?
>
>
> no.
>
>


--
  Han-Wen Nienhuys - [hidden email] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen


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Re: What's the least input into a score to get midi output added?

Donald Axel
In reply to this post by Jay Hamilton, Sound and Silence
On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 19:23:54 -0700
Jay wrote:

> I did use text mode cut and paste from the pdf and that's where
> the problem came from.
> AND I need to check out the archive too.

Aha! When you use a PDF file you are using something which has
passed through LaTeX or tetex or pdftex (I am not an expert on
these things ... yet) and some characters are changed.

There is a change even for the "source code examples" and I
am not sure where and why it comes.  I get spaces in stead
of the single quote after c as in "\relative c'"


The reason is, that LaTeX tries to improve your text using
substitution for characters which are known to be easier to
read when they are replaced, for example:

   ffi becomes one character (or rather one glyph)

   double quotes may become >> or some special variants etc.

I fetched lilypond doc in pdf-representation to my workstation
and as told above I get space instead of the single quote in c'
when I do cut and paste. When I do ps2ascii lilypond.pdf > l.txt
and search for a4 b c d     then I get the correct singlequote.

Maybe it is a heritage from TeX or LaTeX being a math-text tool
where c' is a common notation for some kinds of variables.


--
dax2-tele2adsl:dk -- http://d-axel.dk/  Donald Axel


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RE: What's the least input into a score to get midi output added?

Sven Axelsson
In reply to this post by Han-Wen Nienhuys
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Han-Wen Nienhuys [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: den 29 juli 2005 10:51
> To: Fairchild
> Cc: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: What's the least input into a score to get midi
> output added?
>
> Fairchild wrote:
> > Overwhelming and convincing argument.
>
> I would like to see the argument for the opposite, since there are so
> many characters that are alike. We have the n-dash and the
> em-dash  for
> the hyphen, and unicode (being 31-bit) doubtlessly will have
> tons of oth
> er similar characters. How do you suggest to go about and
> find them all?
> What will this gain in clarity of the language definition, and how do
> you propose to deal with ambiguities in the syntax (the high
> ascii chars
> normally being part of a string.)
>
> In any event, the definition of ' for Scheme (i.e. #   in
> LilyPond) is
> set by the R5RS standard. We cannot change that.
>
> In short, I think it is bad idea, and I wish people would
> just trust my judgement for once.

Wouldn't that break a lot of existing markup? For instance
having title = "Look "A Quoted String"" in the header.

And how about when we actually want the en- or em-dash?
Now that Lilypond correctly uses the full Unicode character
set I certainly see no reason to arbitrary limit it's use.

I guess the real argument is, clean up the documentation so
that all examples actually work when cut-and-pasted.

--
Sven Axelsson



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Re: What's the least input into a score to get midi output added?

Han-Wen Nienhuys
Sven Axelsson wrote:
> Wouldn't that break a lot of existing markup? For instance
> having title = "Look "A Quoted String"" in the header.
>
> And how about when we actually want the en- or em-dash?
> Now that Lilypond correctly uses the full Unicode character
> set I certainly see no reason to arbitrary limit it's use.

indeed.

> I guess the real argument is, clean up the documentation so
> that all examples actually work when cut-and-pasted.

I think the proper thing is to add a note to the PDF docs that people
should not expect cutting & pasting from the PDF to work. PDF is made
for getting accurate printout, not for transporting ascii text.

--
  Han-Wen Nienhuys - [hidden email] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen


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Re: What's the least input into a score to get midi output added?

Donald Axel
In reply to this post by Sven Axelsson
On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 11:34:45 +0200
Sven wrote:

>
> I guess the real argument is, clean up the documentation so
> that all examples actually work when cut-and-pasted.

They do, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the examples.

The problem is the software for cut and paste or maybe
the generation of PDF files.

See my explanation about cutting and pasting bugs as
a direct answer to Jay on this very same thread.



--
dax2-tele2adsl:dk -- http://d-axel.dk/  Donald Axel


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