Using addlyrics with a variable

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Using addlyrics with a variable

Neil Killeen
Hello

I am exploring lilypond for the first time.   In evaluating its suitability
for my
purposes, I am making a little test piece to explore layouts.

I am having trouble with lyric setting.  I would like to use a pre-defined
variable with the \addlyrics command (I can't find the answer in the manual
or archives).

Thus something along the lines of


sopLyric = {  One Two  Three }
{ a b c }
\addlyrics \sopLyric



However, this approach fails.  The actual error I get from my actual
test piece is


test2.ly:44:13: error: syntax error, unexpected STRING
sopLyric = {
             One Two  Three }



OK, so I guess I have something wrong with the variable assignment syntax
(sopLyric = ...) and it is not allowed to put a string like this.   I have
tried other things;
with quotes, and trying to put the addlyrics in the variable but I can't get
this
approach to work.

As far as I can see, the manual does not have an example of this.  Whenever
it
uses \addlyrics,  the examples give the lyrics directly  where the
\addlyrics command is
used.  I can't find anything about using strings in the explanation of
assigning
variables either.


The manual does show how to use a pre-defined variable with the more complex
lyric modes.    So I tried this too.  Below is the actual code (rather than
some
pseudo code like above) that I used. You can see I am trying to use
lyricmode
and lyricsto on the Soprano voice (the only one for now).  The music is
enclosed between << and >> because of course I really want to have
several voices (sop,mez,alto) but in finding the simplest version of what
I am doing that fails, I have pulled the other voices out.

The error I get is

warning: cannot find Voice `sop'

(although I have defined it), and the resultant type-set file has two
staffs; one empty, the second with
the actual soprano voice notes and no lyric.

As far as I can see I have followed the examples in the manual.

I note that if I remove the << and >> this error message does not occur,
but the same wrong output arises.

Perhaps I should be using some of the other commands like \score etc but
I don't really know what they are for at this point (they just start
appearing
in the manual without explanation).


advice appreciated !

regards
Neil



\include "english.ly"
\version "2.6.3"
\midi{ \tempo 4=72 }
\header {
  title = \markup { "Test Piece" }
  composer = \markup { "Mr. Wiggle" }
  poet = \markup { "Mr. Biggles" }
}
common = {
  \key g \major
  \time 3/4
}
%
sopNotes = {
   \relative c' {
      \set Staff.instrument = \markup {Soprano}
      \tempo 4=80
      \common
      \clef treble
      e'2 d4   c2 <b d>4   a8( b) c2
   }
}
%
%
sopLyric = \lyricmode {
  One Two   One Two  One __ Two
}
%
<<
  \context Voice = sop {
     \new Staff  {
        \sopNotes
     }
   }
   \lyricsto "sop" \new Lyrics \sopLyric
>>




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Re: Using addlyrics with a variable

Mats Bengtsson-6
I already knew that \addlyrics had very limited applicability, but
it seems that it's even more limited to only handle simple examples
than you might expect.

Still, the following version of your first attempt does work:


\version "2.6.3"
sopLyric = \lyricmode {  One Two  Three }

<<
\context Voice { a b c }
\addlyrics {  \sopLyric }
 >>

First of all, you have to tell the front end of LilyPond to handle the
lyrics as lyrics, this is done with the \lyricmode (which is automatically
done after \addlyrics and \lyricsto, but has to be done explicitly when you
have your lyrics in a variable definition).
Secondly, you at least have to tell LilyPond that the score contains two
things in parallel, namely the music and the lyrics. That's done with the
<<...>>.
Finally, for some silly reason, you need to have curly braces around the
"argument" of \addlyrics. I'll send a bug report on that one.

I would actually recommend you to always explicitly specify the
\score{...} block. It just tells you where the actual score declaration
appears, in contrast to variable definitions and other declarations.
Then, the example would look like:

\version "2.6.3"
sopLyric = \lyricmode {  One Two  Three }

\score{
<<
\context Voice { a b c }
\addlyrics {  \sopLyric }
 >>
}

   /Mats

Neil Killeen wrote:

> Hello
>
> I am exploring lilypond for the first time.   In evaluating its
> suitability for my
> purposes, I am making a little test piece to explore layouts.
>
> I am having trouble with lyric setting.  I would like to use a
> pre-defined
> variable with the \addlyrics command (I can't find the answer in the
> manual
> or archives).
>
> Thus something along the lines of
>
>
> sopLyric = {  One Two  Three }
> { a b c }
> \addlyrics \sopLyric
>
>
>
> However, this approach fails.  The actual error I get from my actual
> test piece is
>
>
> test2.ly:44:13: error: syntax error, unexpected STRING
> sopLyric = {
>             One Two  Three }
>
>
>
> OK, so I guess I have something wrong with the variable assignment syntax
> (sopLyric = ...) and it is not allowed to put a string like this.   I
> have tried other things;
> with quotes, and trying to put the addlyrics in the variable but I
> can't get this
> approach to work.
>
> As far as I can see, the manual does not have an example of this.  
> Whenever it
> uses \addlyrics,  the examples give the lyrics directly  where the
> \addlyrics command is
> used.  I can't find anything about using strings in the explanation of
> assigning
> variables either.
>
>
> The manual does show how to use a pre-defined variable with the more
> complex
> lyric modes.    So I tried this too.  Below is the actual code (rather
> than some
> pseudo code like above) that I used. You can see I am trying to use
> lyricmode
> and lyricsto on the Soprano voice (the only one for now).  The music is
> enclosed between << and >> because of course I really want to have
> several voices (sop,mez,alto) but in finding the simplest version of what
> I am doing that fails, I have pulled the other voices out.
>
> The error I get is
>
> warning: cannot find Voice `sop'
>
> (although I have defined it), and the resultant type-set file has two
> staffs; one empty, the second with
> the actual soprano voice notes and no lyric.
>
> As far as I can see I have followed the examples in the manual.
>
> I note that if I remove the << and >> this error message does not occur,
> but the same wrong output arises.
>
> Perhaps I should be using some of the other commands like \score etc but
> I don't really know what they are for at this point (they just start
> appearing
> in the manual without explanation).
>
>
> advice appreciated !
>
> regards
> Neil
>
>
>
> \include "english.ly"
> \version "2.6.3"
> \midi{ \tempo 4=72 }
> \header {
>  title = \markup { "Test Piece" }
>  composer = \markup { "Mr. Wiggle" }
>  poet = \markup { "Mr. Biggles" }
> }
> common = {
>  \key g \major
>  \time 3/4
> }
> %
> sopNotes = {
>   \relative c' {
>      \set Staff.instrument = \markup {Soprano}
>      \tempo 4=80
>      \common
>      \clef treble
>      e'2 d4   c2 <b d>4   a8( b) c2
>   }
> }
> %
> %
> sopLyric = \lyricmode {
>  One Two   One Two  One __ Two
> }
> %
> <<
>  \context Voice = sop {
>     \new Staff  {
>        \sopNotes
>     }
>   }
>   \lyricsto "sop" \new Lyrics \sopLyric
>
>>>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> lilypond-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user


--
=============================================
        Mats Bengtsson
        Signal Processing
        Signals, Sensors and Systems
        Royal Institute of Technology
        SE-100 44  STOCKHOLM
        Sweden
        Phone: (+46) 8 790 8463
        Fax:   (+46) 8 790 7260
        Email: [hidden email]
        WWW: http://www.s3.kth.se/~mabe
=============================================



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Re: Using addlyrics with a variable

Han-Wen Nienhuys
Mats Bengtsson wrote:
> Secondly, you at least have to tell LilyPond that the score contains two
> things in parallel, namely the music and the lyrics. That's done with the
> <<...>>.
> Finally, for some silly reason, you need to have curly braces around the
> "argument" of \addlyrics. I'll send a bug report on that one.


1. \addlyrics is an infix operator. No need for << >>

2. \addlyrics needs { } to prevent ambiguities.

--
  Han-Wen Nienhuys - [hidden email] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen


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Re: Using addlyrics with a variable

Neil Killeen
In reply to this post by Mats Bengtsson-6

Mats, Han

thanks for your replies.  SInce I imagine I will need add some point to
deal with the more complex \lyricsto command, do you have
an idea about the second problem where it doesn't recognize
the declared Voice ?

thanks
Neil


>
>Neil Killeen wrote:
>
>>
>>The manual does show how to use a pre-defined variable with the more
>>complex yric modes.    So I tried this too.  Below is the actual code
>>(rather than some pseudo code like above) that I used. You can see I am
>>trying to use lyricmode and lyricsto on the Soprano voice (the only one
>>for now).  The music is enclosed between << and >> because of course I
>>really want to have
>>several voices (sop,mez,alto) but in finding the simplest version of what
>>I am doing that fails, I have pulled the other voices out.
>>
>>The error I get is
>>
>>warning: cannot find Voice `sop'
>>
>>(although I have defined it), and the resultant type-set file has two
>>staffs; one empty, the second with
>>the actual soprano voice notes and no lyric.
>>
>>As far as I can see I have followed the examples in the manual.
>>
>>I note that if I remove the << and >> this error message does not occur,
>>but the same wrong output arises.
>>
>>Perhaps I should be using some of the other commands like \score etc but
>>I don't really know what they are for at this point (they just start
>>appearing
>>in the manual without explanation).
>>
>>
>>\include "english.ly"
>>\version "2.6.3"
>>\midi{ \tempo 4=72 }
>>\header {
>>  title = \markup { "Test Piece" }
>>  composer = \markup { "Mr. Wiggle" }
>>  poet = \markup { "Mr. Biggles" }
>>}
>>common = {
>>  \key g \major
>>  \time 3/4
>>}
>>%
>>sopNotes = {
>>   \relative c' {
>>      \set Staff.instrument = \markup {Soprano}
>>      \tempo 4=80
>>      \common
>>      \clef treble
>>      e'2 d4   c2 <b d>4   a8( b) c2
>>   }
>>}
>>%
>>%
>>sopLyric = \lyricmode {
>>  One Two   One Two  One __ Two
>>}
>>%
>><<
>>  \context Voice = sop {
>>     \new Staff  {
>>        \sopNotes
>>     }
>>   }
>>   \lyricsto "sop" \new Lyrics \sopLyric
>>>>




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Re: Using addlyrics with a variable

Mats Bengtsson-6
The problem is that you have declared a Staff context within
a Voice context, which doesn't make sense. Just do

\score{
<<
 \context Voice = sop {
       \sopNotes
  }
  \lyricsto "sop" \new Lyrics \sopLyric

 >>
}

or

\score{
<<
 \new Staff {
    \context Voice = sop {
       \sopNotes
    }
  }
  \lyricsto "sop" \new Lyrics \sopLyric

 >>


  /Mats

}
Neil Killeen wrote:

>
> Mats, Han
>
> thanks for your replies.  SInce I imagine I will need add some point to
> deal with the more complex \lyricsto command, do you have
> an idea about the second problem where it doesn't recognize
> the declared Voice ?
>
> thanks
> Neil
>
>
>>
>> Neil Killeen wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> The manual does show how to use a pre-defined variable with the more
>>> complex yric modes.    So I tried this too.  Below is the actual
>>> code (rather than some pseudo code like above) that I used. You can
>>> see I am trying to use lyricmode and lyricsto on the Soprano voice
>>> (the only one for now).  The music is enclosed between << and >>
>>> because of course I really want to have
>>> several voices (sop,mez,alto) but in finding the simplest version of
>>> what I am doing that fails, I have pulled the other voices out.
>>>
>>> The error I get is
>>>
>>> warning: cannot find Voice `sop'
>>>
>>> (although I have defined it), and the resultant type-set file has
>>> two staffs; one empty, the second with
>>> the actual soprano voice notes and no lyric.
>>>
>>> As far as I can see I have followed the examples in the manual.
>>>
>>> I note that if I remove the << and >> this error message does not
>>> occur,
>>> but the same wrong output arises.
>>>
>>> Perhaps I should be using some of the other commands like \score etc
>>> but
>>> I don't really know what they are for at this point (they just start
>>> appearing
>>> in the manual without explanation).
>>>
>>>
>>> \include "english.ly"
>>> \version "2.6.3"
>>> \midi{ \tempo 4=72 }
>>> \header {
>>>  title = \markup { "Test Piece" }
>>>  composer = \markup { "Mr. Wiggle" }
>>>  poet = \markup { "Mr. Biggles" }
>>> }
>>> common = {
>>>  \key g \major
>>>  \time 3/4
>>> }
>>> %
>>> sopNotes = {
>>>   \relative c' {
>>>      \set Staff.instrument = \markup {Soprano}
>>>      \tempo 4=80
>>>      \common
>>>      \clef treble
>>>      e'2 d4   c2 <b d>4   a8( b) c2
>>>   }
>>> }
>>> %
>>> %
>>> sopLyric = \lyricmode {
>>>  One Two   One Two  One __ Two
>>> }
>>> %
>>> <<
>>>  \context Voice = sop {
>>>     \new Staff  {
>>>        \sopNotes
>>>     }
>>>   }
>>>   \lyricsto "sop" \new Lyrics \sopLyric
>>>
>>>>>
>
>

--
=============================================
        Mats Bengtsson
        Signal Processing
        Signals, Sensors and Systems
        Royal Institute of Technology
        SE-100 44  STOCKHOLM
        Sweden
        Phone: (+46) 8 790 8463
        Fax:   (+46) 8 790 7260
        Email: [hidden email]
        WWW: http://www.s3.kth.se/~mabe
=============================================



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Re: Using addlyrics with a variable

Neil Killeen
ah indeed it doesn't !

thanks
Neil


>
>The problem is that you have declared a Staff context within
>a Voice context, which doesn't make sense. Just do
>
>\score{
><<
>\context Voice = sop {
>       \sopNotes
>  }
>  \lyricsto "sop" \new Lyrics \sopLyric
>
> >>
>}
>
>or
>
>\score{
><<
>\new Staff {
>    \context Voice = sop {
>       \sopNotes
>    }
>  }
>  \lyricsto "sop" \new Lyrics \sopLyric
>
> >>
>
>
>  /Mats
>
>}
>Neil Killeen wrote:
>
>>
>>Mats, Han
>>
>>thanks for your replies.  SInce I imagine I will need add some point to
>>deal with the more complex \lyricsto command, do you have
>>an idea about the second problem where it doesn't recognize
>>the declared Voice ?
>>
>>thanks
>>Neil
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Neil Killeen wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>The manual does show how to use a pre-defined variable with the more
>>>>complex yric modes.    So I tried this too.  Below is the actual code
>>>>(rather than some pseudo code like above) that I used. You can see I am
>>>>trying to use lyricmode and lyricsto on the Soprano voice (the only one
>>>>for now).  The music is enclosed between << and >> because of course I
>>>>really want to have
>>>>several voices (sop,mez,alto) but in finding the simplest version of
>>>>what I am doing that fails, I have pulled the other voices out.
>>>>
>>>>The error I get is
>>>>
>>>>warning: cannot find Voice `sop'
>>>>
>>>>(although I have defined it), and the resultant type-set file has two
>>>>staffs; one empty, the second with
>>>>the actual soprano voice notes and no lyric.
>>>>
>>>>As far as I can see I have followed the examples in the manual.
>>>>
>>>>I note that if I remove the << and >> this error message does not occur,
>>>>but the same wrong output arises.
>>>>
>>>>Perhaps I should be using some of the other commands like \score etc but
>>>>I don't really know what they are for at this point (they just start
>>>>appearing
>>>>in the manual without explanation).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>\include "english.ly"
>>>>\version "2.6.3"
>>>>\midi{ \tempo 4=72 }
>>>>\header {
>>>>  title = \markup { "Test Piece" }
>>>>  composer = \markup { "Mr. Wiggle" }
>>>>  poet = \markup { "Mr. Biggles" }
>>>>}
>>>>common = {
>>>>  \key g \major
>>>>  \time 3/4
>>>>}
>>>>%
>>>>sopNotes = {
>>>>   \relative c' {
>>>>      \set Staff.instrument = \markup {Soprano}
>>>>      \tempo 4=80
>>>>      \common
>>>>      \clef treble
>>>>      e'2 d4   c2 <b d>4   a8( b) c2
>>>>   }
>>>>}
>>>>%
>>>>%
>>>>sopLyric = \lyricmode {
>>>>  One Two   One Two  One __ Two
>>>>}
>>>>%
>>>><<
>>>>  \context Voice = sop {
>>>>     \new Staff  {
>>>>        \sopNotes
>>>>     }
>>>>   }
>>>>   \lyricsto "sop" \new Lyrics \sopLyric
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>
>
>--
>=============================================
> Mats Bengtsson
> Signal Processing
> Signals, Sensors and Systems
> Royal Institute of Technology
> SE-100 44  STOCKHOLM
> Sweden
> Phone: (+46) 8 790 8463
>        Fax:   (+46) 8 790 7260
> Email: [hidden email]
> WWW: http://www.s3.kth.se/~mabe
>=============================================
>




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Lyrics, ties, extenders and hyphens

Neil Killeen
In reply to this post by Mats Bengtsson-6
Hi

1) what is the correct thing to do with a lyric and a tie ?
    Should one use an extender like with a melisma ?  Thus

    a~ a
    Fish __

   Lilypond seems tolerant if I don't add the extender

   a~ a
   Fish


2) Also, I am finding extenders and hyphens get mixed up if I do   extend
ties.

    E.g.

    a1~ | a1  | es1~ | es1
    Moun __ -- tains

   What I see after type setting is something like

     /--------------\             /-----------\
     o              o           o            o
                _         _                           <- First hyphen
overlaps with extender
    Moun______           tains_____



3) Finally, on a matter of style of lyrics and punctuation. Is it good style
to
    see punctuation (e.g. a full stop or comma) before an extender ?
    E.g.

    a~ a
    Fish. __

    If not, what should one do ?   Leave out the punctuation or try and
    poke it in after the extender somehow ?


cheers
Neil




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Tempo marking within a string and object moving

Neil Killeen
Hi again

I have the notes under control, so now I want to do the hard part,  annotate
my music :-)

The very first thing I want to do is proving difficult !

I have a layout like this, with 4 staves.  The music begins with rests for
all parts but the cello.

                                     |
        With determination (o = 100)
Sop        r1
Mez        r1
Alt         r1
Cello      notes


I want to write the expression and tempo marking as indicated above.
The words need to start before the rest symbols are printed (sop/mez/alt)

I wanted to use the \tempo directive, as I will use that elsewhere in
the piece, but I failed to get that to embed in the markup.

My solution seems overly  complicated for such a basic (and common) thing.
In the
soprano line I put :

  r1^\markup { \hspace #-3.0 With Determination  ( \raise # 0.5 { \note #"2"
#1.0 }=100) }


Comments:

1) the \hspace is to push the text to the left of the first rest
2) The \raise is to get the note-head to align so that the bottom of the
note
    aligns with the bottom of the "100" (in the same way as in the \tempo
command)
3) The note head size is larger than that which comes out with the \tempo
command

Is there an easier way to do this ? Can i embed \tempo in the \markup
somehow
so that at least I get consistent note sizes ?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I also wanted to explore how to move text around and eventually found the
padding and extra-offset properties.

The manual gives examples (Sec 4.3)

       \once \override TextScript #'padding = #1.5

and

       \once \override TextScript #'extra-offset = #'( 1.0 . -1.0 )


The # syntax appears to be when a command or property takes an argument
(of any type; string, integer, float etc).

Could someone please explain the syntax involving the ' (comma)  marks ?  
Padding has
one comma  and extra-offset has two.    There are no comma marks in the
markup
commands, why are they in these ones ?  I also find the period in the  
middle of the ( 1.0 . -1.0) strange and I didn't even see  it at first (and
wondered why it wasn't working).

Anyway, using the extra-offset ( I couldn't get padding to work) I rewrote
my expression
above (and added a vertical shift) as :

       \once \override TextScript #'extra-offset = #'( -3.0 . 2.0 )
       r1^\markup { With Passion ( \raise # 0.5 { \note #"4" #1.0 }=100) }

which is still quite complicated.  Is there  a simpler way to move things
about or is this the one true way ?



cheers
Neil




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Re: Lyrics, ties, extenders and hyphens

Mats Bengtsson-6
In reply to this post by Neil Killeen
I don't have any book on music typesetting practice available
in front of me right now, but will try some advanced guesses
anyway.

Neil Killeen wrote:

> Hi
>
> 1) what is the correct thing to do with a lyric and a tie ?
>    Should one use an extender like with a melisma ?  Thus
>
>    a~ a
>    Fish __
>
>   Lilypond seems tolerant if I don't add the extender
>
>   a~ a
>   Fish
>
I would only use extender lines for melismas, not for ties.

>
> 2) Also, I am finding extenders and hyphens get mixed up if I do  
> extend ties.
>
>    E.g.
>
>    a1~ | a1  | es1~ | es1
>    Moun __ -- tains
>
>   What I see after type setting is something like
>
>     /--------------\             /-----------\
>     o              o           o            o
>                _         _                           <- First hyphen
> overlaps with extender
>    Moun______           tains_____
>
I think it's normal to only use hyphens in such a situation and no
extender lines.

>
>
> 3) Finally, on a matter of style of lyrics and punctuation. Is it good
> style to
>    see punctuation (e.g. a full stop or comma) before an extender ?
>    E.g.
>
>    a~ a
>    Fish. __
>
>    If not, what should one do ?   Leave out the punctuation or try and
>    poke it in after the extender somehow ?

The punctuation before the extender seems reasonable.

   /Mats


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Re: Tempo marking within a string and object moving

Mats Bengtsson-6
In reply to this post by Neil Killeen
Always use R1 instead of r1 for full measure rests.

The solution you have done is more or less what I would use as well, but
I would use
\mark \markup{ ... }
before the first note instead. Then it will be printed on top of the
score line and
aligned before the first note, as you wish.

If you wish the corresponding tempo in the MIDI file, you can either use a
\tempo command in the  \midi{...} block (since it's the at the top of
the score)
or use a \tempo command within the Staff context and make it invisible.

   /Mats

Neil Killeen wrote:

> Hi again
>
> I have the notes under control, so now I want to do the hard part,  
> annotate my music :-)
>
> The very first thing I want to do is proving difficult !
>
> I have a layout like this, with 4 staves.  The music begins with rests
> for all parts but the cello.
>
>                                     |
>        With determination (o = 100)
> Sop        r1
> Mez        r1
> Alt         r1
> Cello      notes
>
>
> I want to write the expression and tempo marking as indicated above.
> The words need to start before the rest symbols are printed (sop/mez/alt)
>
> I wanted to use the \tempo directive, as I will use that elsewhere in
> the piece, but I failed to get that to embed in the markup.
>
> My solution seems overly  complicated for such a basic (and common)
> thing. In the
> soprano line I put :
>
>  r1^\markup { \hspace #-3.0 With Determination  ( \raise # 0.5 { \note
> #"2" #1.0 }=100) }
>
>
> Comments:
>
> 1) the \hspace is to push the text to the left of the first rest
> 2) The \raise is to get the note-head to align so that the bottom of
> the note
>    aligns with the bottom of the "100" (in the same way as in the
> \tempo command)
> 3) The note head size is larger than that which comes out with the
> \tempo command
>
> Is there an easier way to do this ? Can i embed \tempo in the \markup
> somehow
> so that at least I get consistent note sizes ?
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> I also wanted to explore how to move text around and eventually found the
> padding and extra-offset properties.
>
> The manual gives examples (Sec 4.3)
>
>       \once \override TextScript #'padding = #1.5
>
> and
>
>       \once \override TextScript #'extra-offset = #'( 1.0 . -1.0 )
>
>
> The # syntax appears to be when a command or property takes an argument
> (of any type; string, integer, float etc).
>
> Could someone please explain the syntax involving the ' (comma)  marks
> ?  Padding has
> one comma  and extra-offset has two.    There are no comma marks in
> the markup
> commands, why are they in these ones ?  I also find the period in the  
> middle of the ( 1.0 . -1.0) strange and I didn't even see  it at first
> (and wondered why it wasn't working).
>
> Anyway, using the extra-offset ( I couldn't get padding to work) I
> rewrote my expression
> above (and added a vertical shift) as :
>
>       \once \override TextScript #'extra-offset = #'( -3.0 . 2.0 )
>       r1^\markup { With Passion ( \raise # 0.5 { \note #"4" #1.0 }=100) }
>
> which is still quite complicated.  Is there  a simpler way to move
> things about or is this the one true way ?
>
>
>
> cheers
> Neil
>
>
>
>
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> lilypond-user mailing list
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--
=============================================
        Mats Bengtsson
        Signal Processing
        Signals, Sensors and Systems
        Royal Institute of Technology
        SE-100 44  STOCKHOLM
        Sweden
        Phone: (+46) 8 790 8463
        Fax:   (+46) 8 790 7260
        Email: [hidden email]
        WWW: http://www.s3.kth.se/~mabe
=============================================



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Re: Lyrics, ties, extenders and hyphens

Mats Bengtsson-6
In reply to this post by Mats Bengtsson-6
I have now checked an authoritative book ("Noter" by Börje Tyboni,
unfortunately only available in Swedish). It turns out that you
can have extender lines also for tied over notes, not only for
melismas. The rule is rather that you should only use an extender line
if there is a wide space to the next syllable.
My answers for 2) and 3) seem correct, though.

    /Mats

Mats Bengtsson wrote:

> I don't have any book on music typesetting practice available
> in front of me right now, but will try some advanced guesses
> anyway.
>
> Neil Killeen wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> 1) what is the correct thing to do with a lyric and a tie ?
>>    Should one use an extender like with a melisma ?  Thus
>>
>>    a~ a
>>    Fish __
>>
>>   Lilypond seems tolerant if I don't add the extender
>>
>>   a~ a
>>   Fish
>>
> I would only use extender lines for melismas, not for ties.
>
>>
>> 2) Also, I am finding extenders and hyphens get mixed up if I do  
>> extend ties.
>>
>>    E.g.
>>
>>    a1~ | a1  | es1~ | es1
>>    Moun __ -- tains
>>
>>   What I see after type setting is something like
>>
>>     /--------------\             /-----------\
>>     o              o           o            o
>>                _         _                           <- First hyphen
>> overlaps with extender
>>    Moun______           tains_____
>>
> I think it's normal to only use hyphens in such a situation and no
> extender lines.
>
>>
>>
>> 3) Finally, on a matter of style of lyrics and punctuation. Is it good
>> style to
>>    see punctuation (e.g. a full stop or comma) before an extender ?
>>    E.g.
>>
>>    a~ a
>>    Fish. __
>>
>>    If not, what should one do ?   Leave out the punctuation or try and
>>    poke it in after the extender somehow ?
>
>
> The punctuation before the extender seems reasonable.
>
>   /Mats
>

--
=============================================
        Mats Bengtsson
        Signal Processing
        Signals, Sensors and Systems
        Royal Institute of Technology
        SE-100 44  STOCKHOLM
        Sweden
        Phone: (+46) 8 790 8463
         Fax:   (+46) 8 790 7260
        Email: [hidden email]
        WWW: http://www.s3.kth.se/~mabe
=============================================


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Re: Lyrics, ties, extenders and hyphens

Neil Killeen

Mats

many thanks for following that up.

regards
Neil

>From: Mats Bengtsson <[hidden email]>
>To: Neil Killeen <[hidden email]>
>CC: [hidden email]
>Subject: Re: Lyrics, ties, extenders and hyphens
>Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:17:52 +0200
>
>I have now checked an authoritative book ("Noter" by B?rje Tyboni,
>unfortunately only available in Swedish). It turns out that you
>can have extender lines also for tied over notes, not only for
>melismas. The rule is rather that you should only use an extender line
>if there is a wide space to the next syllable.
>My answers for 2) and 3) seem correct, though.
>
>    /Mats
>
>Mats Bengtsson wrote:
>>I don't have any book on music typesetting practice available
>>in front of me right now, but will try some advanced guesses
>>anyway.
>>
>>Neil Killeen wrote:
>>
>>>Hi
>>>
>>>1) what is the correct thing to do with a lyric and a tie ?
>>>    Should one use an extender like with a melisma ?  Thus
>>>
>>>    a~ a
>>>    Fish __
>>>
>>>   Lilypond seems tolerant if I don't add the extender
>>>
>>>   a~ a
>>>   Fish
>>>
>>I would only use extender lines for melismas, not for ties.
>>
>>>
>>>2) Also, I am finding extenders and hyphens get mixed up if I do   extend
>>>ties.
>>>
>>>    E.g.
>>>
>>>    a1~ | a1  | es1~ | es1
>>>    Moun __ -- tains
>>>
>>>   What I see after type setting is something like
>>>
>>>     /--------------\             /-----------\
>>>     o              o           o            o
>>>                _         _                           <- First hyphen
>>>overlaps with extender
>>>    Moun______           tains_____
>>>
>>I think it's normal to only use hyphens in such a situation and no
>>extender lines.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>3) Finally, on a matter of style of lyrics and punctuation. Is it good
>>>style to
>>>    see punctuation (e.g. a full stop or comma) before an extender ?
>>>    E.g.
>>>
>>>    a~ a
>>>    Fish. __
>>>
>>>    If not, what should one do ?   Leave out the punctuation or try and
>>>    poke it in after the extender somehow ?
>>
>>
>>The punctuation before the extender seems reasonable.
>>
>>   /Mats
>>
>
>--
>=============================================
> Mats Bengtsson
> Signal Processing
> Signals, Sensors and Systems
> Royal Institute of Technology
> SE-100 44  STOCKHOLM
> Sweden
> Phone: (+46) 8 790 8463
>         Fax:   (+46) 8 790 7260
> Email: [hidden email]
> WWW: http://www.s3.kth.se/~mabe
>=============================================




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Grob Direction error

Neil Killeen
In reply to this post by Mats Bengtsson-6
Hi

have just upgraded to 2.7.14 from 2.6.31 (Mac version).
I now get the rather drammatic error message

programming error: Grob direction requested while calculation in progress.

the output looks fine so I am wondering if this is a debug statement
in the development version ?

cheers
Neil




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Re: Grob Direction error

Sean Reed
i've been getting this since 2.7.14 too. (macos 10.4.2)

has this been addressed further on the lists? (i found no reply to  
this mail).

here's an example of code that gives me this. it occurs as soon as i  
put in the tie.

best,
sean


\version "2.7.15"

eOrg = \relative c' {
     \time 3/8
     \clef treble

     \tieDashed
     <fis, d' gis a>8~\longfermata <fis d' gis a>4 |

}

<<
     \new Staff \eOrg
 >>



--------------------------------------------
Sean Reed
Hamburg, Germany
Web: www.seanreed.de

On 28.10.2005, at 09:41, Neil Killeen wrote:

> Hi
>
> have just upgraded to 2.7.14 from 2.6.31 (Mac version).
> I now get the rather drammatic error message
>
> programming error: Grob direction requested while calculation in  
> progress.
>
> the output looks fine so I am wondering if this is a debug statement
> in the development version ?
>
> cheers
> Neil
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> lilypond-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>



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Re: Grob Direction error

Mats Bengtsson-6
I'm afraid that the comment on "brain-surgery" at the end of
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/info-lilypond/2005-10/msg00003.html
is still valid in 2.7.14 and 2.7.15.

   /Mats

Sean Reed wrote:

> i've been getting this since 2.7.14 too. (macos 10.4.2)
>
> has this been addressed further on the lists? (i found no reply to  
> this mail).
>
> here's an example of code that gives me this. it occurs as soon as i  
> put in the tie.
>
> best,
> sean
>
>
> \version "2.7.15"
>
> eOrg = \relative c' {
>     \time 3/8
>     \clef treble
>
>     \tieDashed
>     <fis, d' gis a>8~\longfermata <fis d' gis a>4 |
>
> }
>
> <<
>     \new Staff \eOrg
> >>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> Sean Reed
> Hamburg, Germany
> Web: www.seanreed.de
>
> On 28.10.2005, at 09:41, Neil Killeen wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> have just upgraded to 2.7.14 from 2.6.31 (Mac version).
>> I now get the rather drammatic error message
>>
>> programming error: Grob direction requested while calculation in  
>> progress.
>>
>> the output looks fine so I am wondering if this is a debug statement
>> in the development version ?
>>
>> cheers
>> Neil
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> lilypond-user mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> lilypond-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user


--
=============================================
        Mats Bengtsson
        Signal Processing
        Signals, Sensors and Systems
        Royal Institute of Technology
        SE-100 44  STOCKHOLM
        Sweden
        Phone: (+46) 8 790 8463
        Fax:   (+46) 8 790 7260
        Email: [hidden email]
        WWW: http://www.s3.kth.se/~mabe
=============================================



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