Use arbitrary notes (with stem/flag) as MMR stencil override

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Re: Use arbitrary notes (with stem/flag) as MMR stencil override

David Kastrup
Kieren MacMillan <[hidden email]> writes:

> Hi David,
>
>> What are "measure-centering properties"?
>
> Whichever ones we think make sense, I suppose.
>
> As I’ve already said, I could see there being a boolean
> #'centre-in-measure; possibly it would be useful to have a numerical
> #'offset (defaulting to 0); in a complete implementation, I suppose
> there’d be a #'centre-together property (analogous to
> #'keep-alive-together); etc.
>
> I could probably think of a dozen others… but I don’t see it being
> worth the exercise if there’s no benefit to adding the interface.

I have no idea what functions should be responsible for doing anything
with properties like that.

--
David Kastrup

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Re: Use arbitrary notes (with stem/flag) as MMR stencil override

Kieren MacMillan
Hi David,

> I have no idea what functions should be responsible for doing anything
> with properties like that.

Which function(s) position/centre MMRs? And which function(s) position NoteColumns/NoteHeads? Wouldn’t those two functions reference #'centre-in-measure, if it existed?

Thanks,
Kieren.
________________________________

Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: [hidden email]


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Re: Use arbitrary notes (with stem/flag) as MMR stencil override

David Kastrup
Kieren MacMillan <[hidden email]> writes:

> Hi David,
>
>> I have no idea what functions should be responsible for doing anything
>> with properties like that.
>
> Which function(s) position/centre MMRs? And which function(s) position
> NoteColumns/NoteHeads? Wouldn’t those two functions reference
> #'centre-in-measure, if it existed?

They are completely different functions and rely on different
information getting collected and processed by the respective engravers.
So you cannot just merge them into one function that then does different
things dependent on some centre-in-measure flag.

--
David Kastrup

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Re: Use arbitrary notes (with stem/flag) as MMR stencil override

Kieren MacMillan
Hi David,

> They are completely different functions and rely on different
> information getting collected and processed by the respective engravers.
> So you cannot just merge them into one function that then does different
> things dependent on some centre-in-measure flag.

As is so often the case, I don’t seem to be asking the right question(s), or else I’m asking the right question(s) in a way that does not result in helpful answer(s).

So here goes another attempt to as the right question, or ask it in the right way:

Is it really the case that the best way for Lilypond to centre things in measures is the current ad-hoc grab-bag of built-in algorithms (cf. MMRs) and distinct hacks (David N’s measure-centred spanners, Harm’s note-column-centering, etc. etc. etc.), as opposed to building a single, consistent, shared mechanism that could be used / adapted / leveraged / referenced / whatever by any grob [type] that wanted to be centred in a measure?

Thanks,
Kieren.
________________________________

Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: [hidden email]


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Re: Use arbitrary notes (with stem/flag) as MMR stencil override

David Kastrup
Kieren MacMillan <[hidden email]> writes:

> Hi David,
>
>> They are completely different functions and rely on different
>> information getting collected and processed by the respective engravers.
>> So you cannot just merge them into one function that then does different
>> things dependent on some centre-in-measure flag.
>
> As is so often the case, I don’t seem to be asking the right
> question(s), or else I’m asking the right question(s) in a way that
> does not result in helpful answer(s).
>
> So here goes another attempt to as the right question, or ask it in the right way:
>
> Is it really the case that the best way for Lilypond to centre things
> in measures is the current ad-hoc grab-bag of built-in algorithms
> (cf. MMRs) and distinct hacks (David N’s measure-centred spanners,
> Harm’s note-column-centering, etc. etc. etc.), as opposed to building
> a single, consistent, shared mechanism that could be used / adapted /
> leveraged / referenced / whatever by any grob [type] that wanted to be
> centred in a measure?

Pretty much.  The MMR functionality is pretty special.  One would
probably need to refactor the job of typesetting MMRs between the normal
rest engraver and the MMR engraver in order to make it possible for
other objects to gain similar positioning.  It's certainly desirable for
things like bordun notes (Monteverdi's Vespers anybody?) but it requires
a completely different approach to positioning that is not really
amenable to a few flags.  For example, what to do if a measure is split
across lines?

--
David Kastrup

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Re: Use arbitrary notes (with stem/flag) as MMR stencil override

Kieren MacMillan
Hi David,

> Pretty much.

Okay. Thanks for the detailed and helpful answer. Consider this "brainstorming a possible feature request" thread closed from my perspective.

Best,
Kieren.
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‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: [hidden email]


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Re: Use arbitrary notes (with stem/flag) as MMR stencil override

Urs Liska-3


Am 5. Februar 2019 22:32:59 MEZ schrieb Kieren MacMillan <[hidden email]>:
>Hi David,
>
>> Pretty much.
>
>Okay. Thanks for the detailed and helpful answer. Consider this
>"brainstorming a possible feature request" thread closed from my
>perspective.
>

For now I will then generalize the solution I found today to center arbitrary music expressions in a measure (using the MMR) and try to make it available as an opemLilyLib tool. This can also add centered markup above and below the staff.
At least *some* relief maybe

Urs

>Best,
>Kieren.
>________________________________
>
>Kieren MacMillan, composer
>‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
>‣ email: [hidden email]
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>lilypond-user mailing list
>[hidden email]
>https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

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