The optional \score? was: lilypond ./ChangeLog input/regression/accidenta...

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The optional \score? was: lilypond ./ChangeLog input/regression/accidenta...

Mats Bengtsson-6


Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:

> CVSROOT: /cvsroot/lilypond
> Module name: lilypond
> Branch:
> Changes by: Han-Wen Nienhuys <[hidden email]> 05/08/18 13:43:05
> diff -u lilypond/ChangeLog:1.4033 lilypond/ChangeLog:1.4034
> --- lilypond/ChangeLog:1.4033 Thu Aug 18 13:02:03 2005
> +++ lilypond/ChangeLog Thu Aug 18 13:43:05 2005
> @@ -1,5 +1,7 @@
>  2005-08-18  Han-Wen Nienhuys  <[hidden email]>
>  
> + * input/regression/*.ly: remove superfluous \score blocks. Reindent.

Are you sure about this one?

I actually question if it was a good idea to make the \score{...}
optional. It may be great for you and me who mostly write short
example files illustrating some feature, since it saves a few
key strokes. However, as soon as you want to typeset some real
music, the saving in time is negligible whereas the risk of added
confusion both to new and experienced users is far from negligible.

You might claim that it doesn't matter for the Regression files, but
I claim that these are a good source of examples for most users and
I fear that it's more difficult for most people to follow even a
short example when you don't see immediately where the (implicit)
\score block is.

   /Mats


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Re: The optional \score? was: lilypond ./ChangeLog input/regression/accidenta...

Han-Wen Nienhuys
Mats Bengtsson wrote:

> I actually question if it was a good idea to make the \score{...}
> optional. It may be great for you and me who mostly write short
> example files illustrating some feature, since it saves a few
> key strokes. However, as soon as you want to typeset some real
> music, the saving in time is negligible whereas the risk of added
> confusion both to new and experienced users is far from negligible.
>
> You might claim that it doesn't matter for the Regression files, but
> I claim that these are a good source of examples for most users and
> I fear that it's more difficult for most people to follow even a
> short example when you don't see immediately where the (implicit)
> \score block is.

frankly, I dislike \score - and I wish I could figure out a way to
remove the remaining uses completely.

--
  Han-Wen Nienhuys - [hidden email] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen


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Re: The optional \score? was: lilypond ./ChangeLog input/regression/accidenta...

Mats Bengtsson-6
To further motivate why I'm so fond of \score:
Compare when you look at a new C/C++ program. Where do
you start looking? I and most other people certainly start
looking for main to get a starting point when finding out
what it does. When I see a new .ly file, I do the same,
looking for \score{...} to get a starting point.

Of course, a trained eye can figure out where the implicit
\score is anyway, but it's clearly harder.

Also, think of the problems brought up recently when you want
to connect a certain \header{...} (or \layout or \midi) to a
certain \score{...} in contrast to global settings that should
apply to all scores in the file.

    /Mats


Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:

> Mats Bengtsson wrote:
>
>> I actually question if it was a good idea to make the \score{...}
>> optional. It may be great for you and me who mostly write short
>> example files illustrating some feature, since it saves a few
>> key strokes. However, as soon as you want to typeset some real
>> music, the saving in time is negligible whereas the risk of added
>> confusion both to new and experienced users is far from negligible.
>>
>> You might claim that it doesn't matter for the Regression files, but
>> I claim that these are a good source of examples for most users and
>> I fear that it's more difficult for most people to follow even a
>> short example when you don't see immediately where the (implicit)
>> \score block is.
>
>
> frankly, I dislike \score - and I wish I could figure out a way to
> remove the remaining uses completely.
>

--
=============================================
        Mats Bengtsson
        Signal Processing
        Signals, Sensors and Systems
        Royal Institute of Technology
        SE-100 44  STOCKHOLM
        Sweden
        Phone: (+46) 8 790 8463
         Fax:   (+46) 8 790 7260
        Email: [hidden email]
        WWW: http://www.s3.kth.se/~mabe
=============================================


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Re: The optional \score? was: lilypond ./ChangeLog input/regression/accidenta...

Han-Wen Nienhuys
Mats Bengtsson wrote:
> To further motivate why I'm so fond of \score:
> Compare when you look at a new C/C++ program. Where do
> you start looking? I and most other people certainly start
> looking for main to get a starting point when finding out
> what it does. When I see a new .ly file, I do the same,
> looking for \score{...} to get a starting point.

Point taken. However, the regtest is a large collection of snippets, and
as such,  we want to take out the redtape. Most of them have raggedright
= ##t as well, but I haven't thought of a clean way to get rid of that.
--
  Han-Wen Nienhuys - [hidden email] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen


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Re: The optional \score? was: lilypond ./ChangeLoginput/regression/accidenta...

Stephen-7

----- Original Message -----
From: "Han-Wen Nienhuys" <[hidden email]>
To: "Mats Bengtsson" <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: The optional \score? was: lilypond
./ChangeLoginput/regression/accidenta...


> Mats Bengtsson wrote:
>> To further motivate why I'm so fond of \score:
>> Compare when you look at a new C/C++ program. Where do
>> you start looking? I and most other people certainly start
>> looking for main to get a starting point when finding out
>> what it does. When I see a new .ly file, I do the same,
>> looking for \score{...} to get a starting point.
>
> Point taken. However, the regtest is a large collection of snippets, and
> as such,  we want to take out the redtape. Most of them have raggedright =
> ##t as well, but I haven't thought of a clean way to get rid of that.

I applaud your determination to make the Lilypond syntax as simple as
possible and I practically threw a party at the demise of \notes at the
2.2 --> 2.4 change, but I think you could spend your time more productively
than finding ways to get rid of \score and raggedright. \score is already
optional for extremely simple examples like { a' b' c'' }

Stephen

> --
>  Han-Wen Nienhuys - [hidden email] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen
>
>
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