\RemoveEmptyStaves not removing first line

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\RemoveEmptyStaves not removing first line

Rohan Srinivasan
Dear list,

I am currently engraving a song for soprano and piano which begins with 15 measures of piano solo. I would like the soprano's staff not to show since it is not playing. \RemoveEmptyStaves does not seem to hide the first line of the piece.

Rohan

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Re: \RemoveEmptyStaves not removing first line

Lukas-Fabian Moser

I am currently engraving a song for soprano and piano which begins with 15 measures of piano solo. I would like the soprano's staff not to show since it is not playing. \RemoveEmptyStaves does not seem to hide the first line of the piece.

In current versions (there's no reason not to use the 2.19.xx development versions which are stable enough for professional everyday use), there's  \RemoveAllEmptyStaves which does just that (like \RemoveEmptyStaves but also remove the respective staves in the first system).

Best
Lukas


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Re: \RemoveEmptyStaves not removing first line

Malte Meyn-3


Am 29.10.18 um 05:52 schrieb Lukas-Fabian Moser:

>
>> I am currently engraving a song for soprano and piano which begins
>> with 15 measures of piano solo. I would like the soprano's staff not
>> to show since it is not playing. \RemoveEmptyStaves does not seem to
>> hide the first line of the piece.
>>
> In current versions (there's no reason not to use the 2.19.xx
> development versions which are stable enough for professional everyday
> use), there's |\RemoveAllEmptyStaves| which does just that (like
> \RemoveEmptyStaves but also remove the respective staves in the first
> system).

In 2.18.2 there is \override VerticalAxisGroup.remove-first = ##t for that.

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Re: \RemoveEmptyStaves not removing first line

Lukas-Fabian Moser
In reply to this post by Lukas-Fabian Moser

(Replying to list, assuming you wrote to me personally only by accident, as implied by your wording):

Am 31.10.18 um 00:42 schrieb Rohan Srinivasan:
Could any of you give me an example of how \RemoveAllEmptyStaves is used? I have:

\layout {
  \context {
    \Staff
    \RemoveAllEmptyStaves
  }
}

This still doesn't seem to clear the empty staves in the first system.

Please always try to provide a compilable minimal example showing your problem.

\version "2.19.80"

\layout {
  \context {
    \Staff
    \RemoveAllEmptyStaves
  }
}

<<
  \new Staff \with { instrumentName = "Voice" shortInstrumentName = "Voc" } { R1*30 \repeat unfold 80 c'4 }
  \new PianoStaff \with { instrumentName = "Piano" shortInstrumentName = "Pn" } <<
    \new Staff { \repeat unfold 200 c'4 }
    \new Staff { \clef bass \repeat unfold 400 c8 }
  >>
>>

works here:

Best
Lukas


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Re: \RemoveEmptyStaves not removing first line

Susan Buckingham
In reply to this post by Malte Meyn-3
Have also used the \override VerticalAxisGroup.remove-first = ##t and can confirm this works with 2.18.2 when added to score block.

\score {
  <<
    \flutePart
    \pianoPart
  >>
  \layout { #(layout-set-staff-size 22)
                 \context { \Staff \RemoveEmptyStaves
                                  \override VerticalAxisGroup.remove-first = ##t }
               }
  \midi { }
}

On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 at 03:41, Malte Meyn <[hidden email]> wrote:


Am 29.10.18 um 05:52 schrieb Lukas-Fabian Moser:
>
>> I am currently engraving a song for soprano and piano which begins
>> with 15 measures of piano solo. I would like the soprano's staff not
>> to show since it is not playing. \RemoveEmptyStaves does not seem to
>> hide the first line of the piece.
>>
> In current versions (there's no reason not to use the 2.19.xx
> development versions which are stable enough for professional everyday
> use), there's |\RemoveAllEmptyStaves| which does just that (like
> \RemoveEmptyStaves but also remove the respective staves in the first
> system).

In 2.18.2 there is \override VerticalAxisGroup.remove-first = ##t for that.

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Re: \RemoveEmptyStaves not removing first line

Rohan Srinivasan
In reply to this post by Lukas-Fabian Moser
Thank you - I meant to reply to the list. I have the following:

\version "2.19.82"

\header {
  title = "CLOUDS AND SUNSHINE"
  subtitle = "or, I'VE JUST ARRIVED FROM DIXIE"
  composer = "George H. Coes (1828?-1897)"
}

\paper {
  #(set-paper-size "a4")
}

\layout {
  \context {
    \Voice
    \consists "Melody_engraver"
    \override Stem #'neutral-direction = #'()
  }
}

\layout {
  \context {
    \Staff
    \RemoveAllEmptyStaves
  }
}

paren =
#(define-event-function (parser location dyn) (ly:event?)
   (make-dynamic-script
    #{ \markup \concat {
         \normal-text \italic \fontsize #2 (
\pad-x #0.2 #(ly:music-property dyn 'text)
\normal-text \italic \fontsize #2 )
       }
    #}))

global = {
  \key f \major
  \numericTimeSignature
  \time 2/4
  \partial 8
}

sopranoVoice = \relative c'' {
  \global
  \dynamicUp
  r8 |
  R2*20
  
}

right = \relative c'' {
  \global
  \partial 8 c,8 | 
  c c d8. e16 |
  f8 a r a |
  c[ b bes8. g16] |
  g4. c8 |
  \override DynamicLineSpanner.staff-padding = #3
  d16\f d c d a' g f d |
  c\paren\f c b c g' f c a |
  c\p c b c e d b g
  
  
}

left = \relative c' {
  \global
  \partial 8 r8 |
  \override Beam.damping = #10000 f,,[ <c' f a> <c f a>] r |
  f,[ <c' f a> <c f a>] r |
  c,[ <c' e bes'> <c e bes'>] r |
  f,[ <c' f a> <c f a>] r |
  \undo \override Beam.damping = #10000 
  bes[ <g' bes d> <g bes d>] r | \break
  c,[ <a' c f> <a c f>] r |
  c,[ <g' bes c e> <g bes c e>] r |
  
  
}

sopranoVoicePart = \new Staff \with {
  instrumentName = ""
  \consists "Ambitus_engraver"
} { \sopranoVoice }

pianoPart = \new PianoStaff \with {
  instrumentName = ""
} <<
  \new Staff = "right" \right
  \new Staff = "left" { \clef bass \left }
>>

\score {
  <<
    \sopranoVoicePart
    \pianoPart
  >>
  \layout { }
}


On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 12:54 AM Lukas-Fabian Moser <[hidden email]> wrote:

(Replying to list, assuming you wrote to me personally only by accident, as implied by your wording):

Am 31.10.18 um 00:42 schrieb Rohan Srinivasan:
Could any of you give me an example of how \RemoveAllEmptyStaves is used? I have:

\layout {
  \context {
    \Staff
    \RemoveAllEmptyStaves
  }
}

This still doesn't seem to clear the empty staves in the first system.

Please always try to provide a compilable minimal example showing your problem.

\version "2.19.80"

\layout {
  \context {
    \Staff
    \RemoveAllEmptyStaves
  }
}

<<
  \new Staff \with { instrumentName = "Voice" shortInstrumentName = "Voc" } { R1*30 \repeat unfold 80 c'4 }
  \new PianoStaff \with { instrumentName = "Piano" shortInstrumentName = "Pn" } <<
    \new Staff { \repeat unfold 200 c'4 }
    \new Staff { \clef bass \repeat unfold 400 c8 }
  >>
>>

works here:

Best
Lukas


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Re: \RemoveEmptyStaves not removing first line

Lukas-Fabian Moser

Am 01.11.18 um 01:34 schrieb Rohan Srinivasan:
> Thank you - I meant to reply to the list. I have the following:

The problem is the Ambitus_engraver. The ambitus is given at the
beginning of the piece, and if you do this, the first staff of the
singing voice is not empty (but contains the Ambitus designation).

Where would you expect the Ambitus marker to show up if you do not want
the staff to appear in the first system?

Best
Lukas


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Re: \RemoveEmptyStaves not removing first line

David Kastrup
Lukas-Fabian Moser <[hidden email]> writes:

> Am 01.11.18 um 01:34 schrieb Rohan Srinivasan:
>> Thank you - I meant to reply to the list. I have the following:
>
> The problem is the Ambitus_engraver. The ambitus is given at the
> beginning of the piece, and if you do this, the first staff of the
> singing voice is not empty (but contains the Ambitus designation).
>
> Where would you expect the Ambitus marker to show up if you do not
> want the staff to appear in the first system?

First entry?  I am not sure that the interfaces the Ambitus_engraver
exercises would allow to make that difference, but if they did, this
would be a reasonable expectation.  Though probably rather hard to
implement, given how late in the typesetting stage "empty" staves get
pruned.

--
David Kastrup

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Re: \RemoveEmptyStaves not removing first line

Lukas-Fabian Moser

>> Where would you expect the Ambitus marker to show up if you do not
>> want the staff to appear in the first system?
> First entry?  I am not sure that the interfaces the Ambitus_engraver
> exercises would allow to make that difference, but if they did, this
> would be a reasonable expectation.  Though probably rather hard to
> implement, given how late in the typesetting stage "empty" staves get
> pruned.
>
Yes, that's probably the only sufficiently reasonable place to expect it.

But: It seems to me that the whole point (or, at least, the most
important application) of the Ambitus indication is to enable users of
the score to judge the tessitura "at first glance" (even though, of
course, for a reliable judgement one would have to look at the actual
music in more detail). This application is somewhat hindered if one has
to look for the right system containing the first entry of a voice first.

So, to be honest, I'm not sure whether trying to make the
Ambitus_engraver compatible with hiding empty staves would be worth the
effort, especially if (as you say) that effort would be large.

Best
Lukas



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Re: \RemoveEmptyStaves not removing first line [OT-ish]

Kieren MacMillan
Hi Lukas,

> It seems to me that the whole point (or, at least, the most important application) of the Ambitus indication is to enable users of the score to judge the tessitura "at first glance" (even though, of course, for a reliable judgement one would have to look at the actual music in more detail).

I’ve often wondered [only to myself] whether the Ambitus engraver could be tweaked to output a graphical cluster, the thickness of which would depend on the number of times that note appears in the piece (or total duration of each note, etc.) — that way, a pretty reliable judgement could be made just by looking at the ambitus, and seeing where the "bulges" were (if any).

Cheers,
Kieren.
________________________________

Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: [hidden email]


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Re: \RemoveEmptyStaves not removing first line

Werner LEMBERG
In reply to this post by Lukas-Fabian Moser

> So, to be honest, I'm not sure whether trying to make the
> Ambitus_engraver compatible with hiding empty staves would be worth
> the effort, especially if (as you say) that effort would be large.

+1.  I've *never* seen an ambitus except at the very beginning of a
piece.


    Werner

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Re: \RemoveEmptyStaves not removing first line

Kieren MacMillan
Hi Werner,

> +1.  I've *never* seen an ambitus except at the very beginning of a piece.

I often use an ambitus in front- or end-matter, to give vocal ranges separate from the score itself. Of course, "front-matter" can be interpreted as "the very beginning of a piece", but I think of it as entirely separate from the piece — and end-matter is definitely not "the very beginning of a piece".

Not trying to battle semantics — just giving a use case, and putting forward my concern that any changes to the Ambitus engraver shouldn’t eliminate the possibility of using it somewhere other than the "traditional place" (i.e., immediately to the left of the first measure of a vocal staff).

Best,
Kieren.
________________________________

Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: [hidden email]


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Re: \RemoveEmptyStaves not removing first line

Thomas Morley-2
Am Do., 1. Nov. 2018 um 16:24 Uhr schrieb Kieren MacMillan
<[hidden email]>:
>
> Hi Werner,
>
> > +1.  I've *never* seen an ambitus except at the very beginning of a piece.
>
> I often use an ambitus in front- or end-matter, to give vocal ranges separate from the score itself. Of course, "front-matter" can be interpreted as "the very beginning of a piece", but I think of it as entirely separate from the piece — and end-matter is definitely not "the very beginning of a piece".
>
> Not trying to battle semantics — just giving a use case, and putting forward my concern that any changes to the Ambitus engraver shouldn’t eliminate the possibility of using it somewhere other than the "traditional place" (i.e., immediately to the left of the first measure of a vocal staff).

I'd second Werner.
Though, it's already possible to do:

{
  \new Voice = "intro"
    { R1*4 \break }

  \new Voice
    \with { \consists "Ambitus_engraver" }
     \relative c' {
       \override AmbitusNoteHead.break-visibility = ##(#f #f #t)
       \override AmbitusLine.break-visibility = ##(#f #f #t)
       c4 d e f g a b c |
       \break
       b2 c |
       d1
    }
}

alas not very convenient.


Cheers,
  Harm

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Re: \RemoveEmptyStaves not removing first line

Lukas-Fabian Moser
In reply to this post by Kieren MacMillan
>> +1.  I've *never* seen an ambitus except at the very beginning of a piece.
> I often use an ambitus in front- or end-matter, to give vocal ranges separate from the score itself. Of course, "front-matter" can be interpreted as "the very beginning of a piece", but I think of it as entirely separate from the piece — and end-matter is definitely not "the very beginning of a piece".
>
> Not trying to battle semantics — just giving a use case, and putting forward my concern that any changes to the Ambitus engraver shouldn’t eliminate the possibility of using it somewhere other than the "traditional place" (i.e., immediately to the left of the first measure of a vocal staff).

... the least common denominator probably being that an Ambitus
indication should be put at some *distinguished* place - front matter,
end matter, first system, and so on, where it may be found easily. But
to bury it at some more-or-less arbitrary place within the music doesn't
seem a good idea to me.

Anyway: _How_ do you place the Ambitus in, e.g., the front matter?

Best
Lukas



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