Re: FW: How to remove the time signature without removing the barlines

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Re: FW: How to remove the time signature without removing the barlines

Erik Sandberg
On Sunday 17 July 2005 00.07, Fairchild wrote:
> It sets the BarType OK, but should it cause a bar line to be inserted after
> every note?

AFAICS, whichBar is only used internally to tell the Bar_engraver which
barline to typeset during each moment; if it is not set, no barline will be
typeset.

I don't think the behaviour is well-defined if you set the property manually.
What did you expect the property to do?

Erik


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RE: FW: How to remove the time signature without removing the barlines

Fairchild
Erik -

I would expect whichBar = #"|" to set the style/type of bar, but not cause
lines after every note.  I would expect to use \bar to force bar lines at
abnormal places.  See
http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.4/Documentation/user/out-www/lilypond/Bar-lin
es.html.

                                        - Bruce

-----Original Message-----
From: Erik Sandberg [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 3:10 AM
To: Fairchild
Cc: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: FW: How to remove the time signature without removing the
barlines


On Sunday 17 July 2005 00.07, Fairchild wrote:
> It sets the BarType OK, but should it cause a bar line to be inserted
> after every note?

AFAICS, whichBar is only used internally to tell the Bar_engraver which
barline to typeset during each moment; if it is not set, no barline will be
typeset.

I don't think the behaviour is well-defined if you set the property
manually.
What did you expect the property to do?

Erik





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Re: FW: How to remove the time signature without removing the barlines

Erik Sandberg
On Sunday 17 July 2005 17.39, Fairchild wrote:
> Erik -
>
> I would expect whichBar = #"|" to set the style/type of bar, but not cause
> lines after every note.  I would expect to use \bar to force bar lines at
> abnormal places.  See
> http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.4/Documentation/user/out-www/lilypond/Bar-li
>n es.html.

Please read that page again.

"The command \bar bartype is a short cut for doing \set Timing.whichBar =
bartype"

so if whichBar has "|" as its default value, this is the same as setting \bar
"|" everywhere.

BTW, that page also mentions the property that you are looking for.

Erik


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RE: FW: How to remove the time signature without removing the barlines

Fairchild
Message

Erik -

 

I understand that whichBar changes the default bar style as expected.  The flaky thing is that it causes the bar to be inserted after _every_ note.  Can't fathom why this would be wanted often enough to make it a default.

 

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

\version "2.4.6"

{\relative c''{c1 c2 c4 c8 c16 c  c4 c c c}}

\layout {

raggedright = ##t

\context {

\Staff

whichBar = #"||"

}}

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

 


                                        - Bruce


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Re: FW: How to remove the time signature without removing the barlines

Erik Sandberg
On Monday 18 July 2005 18.05, Fairchild wrote:
> Erik -
>
>
>
> I understand that whichBar changes the default bar style as expected.  The
> flaky thing is that it causes the bar to be inserted after _every_ note.
> Can't fathom why this would be wanted often enough to make it a default.

Nobody forces you to use whichBar. The property is not really useful for
non-gurus, as a normal user it's sufficient to control barlines with the \bar
command, together with properties such as defaultBarType, barAlways and
automaticBars.

Graham - Perhaps it would be good to rephrase the last sections of this:
http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.6/Documentation/user/out-www/lilypond/Bar-lines.html
I don't see why any non-guru would want to set whichBar explicitly, so perhaps
that documentation should be moved to internals.

Erik


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Re: FW: How to remove the time signature without removing the barlines

Laura Conrad
>>>>> "ES" == Erik Sandberg <[hidden email]> writes:

    ES> I don't see why any non-guru would want to set whichBar
    ES> explicitly, so perhaps that documentation should be moved to
    ES> internals.

The reason I use it from time to time (maybe I'm a guru, but the
problem is definitely not a guru problem) is that if you move the
barline engraver from the score context to the staff context, you need
it to get any bars at all.

The reason to move the barline engraver is that I sometimes find it
easier to find errors in note entry if the erroneous barlines aren't
duplicated in all staves of a score.

So I would say that a non-guru might well need to use whichBar rather
than bar.  If \bar would work for the barline engraver in any context,
then maybe what you say would be true.

--
Laura (mailto:[hidden email] , http://www.laymusic.org/ )
(617) 661-8097 fax: (501) 641-5011
233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139




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Re: FW: How to remove the time signature without removing the barlines

Erik Sandberg
On Monday 18 July 2005 19.12, Laura Conrad wrote:

> >>>>> "ES" == Erik Sandberg <[hidden email]> writes:
>
>     ES> I don't see why any non-guru would want to set whichBar
>     ES> explicitly, so perhaps that documentation should be moved to
>     ES> internals.
>
> The reason I use it from time to time (maybe I'm a guru, but the
> problem is definitely not a guru problem) is that if you move the
> barline engraver from the score context to the staff context, you need
> it to get any bars at all.
>
> The reason to move the barline engraver is that I sometimes find it
> easier to find errors in note entry if the erroneous barlines aren't
> duplicated in all staves of a score.

OK, then perhaps it shouldn't be removed from the manual. However, the
property is still a bit too odd to be mentioned in the "Basic Notation"
chapter IMHO, perhaps it's better to move it to somewhere in the internals
docu, or to an example in tips&tricks.

> So I would say that a non-guru might well need to use whichBar rather
> than bar.  If \bar would work for the barline engraver in any context,
> then maybe what you say would be true.

You could write such a bar command in Scheme, but that's even more guru:ish.

Bar = #(def-music-function (parser loc str) (string?)
  (context-spec-music (make-property-set 'whichBar str) 'Timing) )

\new Staff { c \Bar #"|." c }

Erik


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Re: How to remove the time signature without removing the barlines

Graham Percival

On 18-Jul-05, at 6:18 PM, Erik Sandberg wrote:

>> The reason I use it from time to time (maybe I'm a guru, but the
>> problem is definitely not a guru problem) is that if you move the
>> barline engraver from the score context to the staff context, you need
>> it to get any bars at all.
>
> OK, then perhaps it shouldn't be removed from the manual. However, the
> property is still a bit too odd to be mentioned in the "Basic Notation"
> chapter IMHO, perhaps it's better to move it to somewhere in the
> internals
> docu, or to an example in tips&tricks.

(whichBar)

I've left it where it is, but I labeled it as "common tweaked
properties".  It isn't
commonly tweaked, but it's now visually distinct from the rest of that
page, and
I can't think of anywhere else to easily put it.  I think this is the
best
compromise.

Cheers,
- Graham



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