Re: Crescendo-Decrescendo

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Re: Crescendo-Decrescendo

Mats Bengtsson-6


Fairchild wrote:

> Been investigating instructions for specifying crescendos and decrescendos
> in version 2.4.3.  For several things, either: a) I don't understand, b) the
> documentation needs enhancement, and/or c) implementation should be changed.
> My test bed is attached.
>
> 1)  The User Guide, Section 5.7.13 Dynamics gives a misleading example:
> \setTextCresc
> c \< d e f\!
> \setHairpinCresc
> e\> d c b\!
> The \setHairpinCresc is not necessary because the \setTextCresc is only good
> once.  Entering \setHairpinCresc does cancel \setTextCresc if entered before
> the once is encountered.

I reported this as a bug (alternatively a request for documentation
if it was an intended feature) some months ago and have renewed the
bug report today.

> 2)  \setTextCresc has no effect for a decrescendo. Use both
> \set decrescendoText = "Decrescendo "
> \set decrescendoSpanner = #'dashed-line
> And these are only good once.

If I tell you that there are both \setTextDecresc and \setTextDim,
you might understand better why the setting is not done by
\setTextCresc.

> 3)  To change crescendo use both
> \set crescendoText = "Crescendo "
> \set crescendoSpanner = #'dashed-line
> Do not use \setTextCresc, it overrides.
What do you mean? Take a look at the definitions of these macros
in /usr/share/lilypond/*/ly/spanners-init.ly (or wherever the file
is installed on your machine).

> 4)  Internals document allows line, dashed-line, dotted-line, and hairpin.
> hairpin overrides text
> line gives dashed-line

Explain more clearly what you mean!

> 5)  No way found to change default italic font, within \markup or with
> \override.

See
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.5/Documentation/user/out-www/lilypond/Font-selection.html#Font-selection


> 6)  \markup is not necessary.  Just use "text".

That's entirely true as long as you typeset plain text and are happy
with the default layout. \markup is intended for all these situations
where you want to do something more fancy. See also the email threads
on "Re: Doc help: \markup{} vs \mark" and "markup{} vs TextScript"
in the archives for lilypond-devel, May this year. If you think there
are some aspects that have are still missing in the latest version of
the manual, I'm sure that Graham would be happy for your input.

    /Mats


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RE: Crescendo-Decrescendo

Fairchild
-----Original Message-----
From: Mats Bengtsson [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 8:22 AM
To: Fairchild
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Crescendo-Decrescendo

Fairchild wrote:

> Been investigating instructions for specifying crescendos and
> decrescendos in version 2.4.3.  For several things, either: a) I don't
> understand, b) the documentation needs enhancement, and/or c)
> implementation should be changed. My test bed is attached.
>
> 1)  The User Guide, Section 5.7.13 Dynamics gives a misleading example:
> \setTextCresc
> c \< d e f\!
> \setHairpinCresc
> e\> d c b\!
> The \setHairpinCresc is not necessary because the \setTextCresc is
> only good once.  Entering \setHairpinCresc does cancel \setTextCresc
> if entered before the once is encountered.

I reported this as a bug (alternatively a request for documentation if it
was an intended feature) some months ago and have renewed the bug report
today.

=== Thanks!

> 2)  \setTextCresc has no effect for a decrescendo. Use both
> \set decrescendoText = "Decrescendo "
> \set decrescendoSpanner = #'dashed-line
> And these are only good once.

If I tell you that there are both \setTextDecresc and \setTextDim, you might
understand better why the setting is not done by \setTextCresc.

=== Ah, good.  That's newly documented after my v 2.4.3.  Like 1) above,
should these only hold once?

> 3)  To change crescendo use both
> \set crescendoText = "Crescendo "
> \set crescendoSpanner = #'dashed-line
> Do not use \setTextCresc, it overrides.
What do you mean? Take a look at the definitions of these macros in
/usr/share/lilypond/*/ly/spanners-init.ly (or wherever the file is installed
on your machine).

=== Not having found spanners-init, it just seemed logical to specify with
the first two \sets, then invoke with the third, not recognizing what
spanners-init makes clear - that the third is shorthand for the first two.
The 2.4.3 guide is misleading.  I suggest the document refer to the
spanners-init file.

> 4)  Internals document allows line, dashed-line, dotted-line, and
> hairpin. hairpin overrides text line gives dashed-line

Explain more clearly what you mean!

=== "set crescendoSpanner = #'hairpin" overrides text.  I.e. can't combine
text and hairpin, but who wants to.  "\set crescendoSpanner = #'line" gives
dashed line.  See Bar 41 in the previously attached test bed.

> 5)  No way found to change default italic font, within \markup or with
> \override.

See
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.5/Documentation/user/out-www/lilypond/Font-select
ion.html#Font-selection

=== I tried many ways.  Didn't find anything effective.

> 6)  \markup is not necessary.  Just use "text".

That's entirely true as long as you typeset plain text and are happy with
the default layout. \markup is intended for all these situations where you
want to do something more fancy. See also the email threads on "Re: Doc
help: \markup{} vs \mark" and "markup{} vs TextScript" in the archives for
lilypond-devel, May this year. If you think there are some aspects that have
are still missing in the latest version of the manual, I'm sure that Graham
would be happy for your input.

=== Cant find the threads you reference.

=== Tried using stuff in \markup {}, but all but text string is ignored.

=== My first reason for looking at these things was to find a way to change
the font size in the text cresc.  Still haven't found a way.

    /Mats

===                                 - Bruce




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Re: Crescendo-Decrescendo

Mats Bengtsson-6


Fairchild wrote:
>>5)  No way found to change default italic font, within \markup or with
>>\override.
>
>
> See
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.5/Documentation/user/out-www/lilypond/Font-select
> ion.html#Font-selection
>
> === I tried many ways.  Didn't find anything effective.

If you are trying to change the font of the (de)crescendo text, then
you have to set the properties of the DynamicText object. For example
to change italics to upright, use
\override DynamicText #'font-shape = #'upright

>>6)  \markup is not necessary.  Just use "text".
>
>
> That's entirely true as long as you typeset plain text and are happy with
> the default layout. \markup is intended for all these situations where you
> want to do something more fancy. See also the email threads on "Re: Doc
> help: \markup{} vs \mark" and "markup{} vs TextScript" in the archives for
> lilypond-devel, May this year. If you think there are some aspects that have
> are still missing in the latest version of the manual, I'm sure that Graham
> would be happy for your input.
>
> === Cant find the threads you reference.

If you goto
www.lilypond.org -> About -> [hidden email] archive -> 2005-05
and search, you will find these threads.

> === Tried using stuff in \markup {}, but all but text string is ignored.

Please provide an example of what you tried. Do the examples in the
manual work for you? Otherwise, you have some problems with your
installation.

> === My first reason for looking at these things was to find a way to change
> the font size in the text cresc.  Still haven't found a way.

As already said earlier, these texts are typeset by the DynamicText
layout object. Just follow the link at the bottom of the manual section
on "Dynamics" and then to the "font-interface" to see all font related
properties that can be set. If you don't understand at all what I'm
talking about, first read the chapter on Changing Defaults in the manual
for version 2.5 (even if you happen to use 2.4, I don't remember).

   /Mats


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RE: Crescendo-Decrescendo

Fairchild
Mats -

With your pointers, I've made significant progress.  Three anomalies remain.

A)  The big aha: text size is controlled with, e.g.
\override DynamicTextSpanner #'font-size  = # 6
but dotted- and dashed-lines aren't scaled.

B)  Got the \markup thing working, almost.  In
\set decrescendoText = \markup{ \fontsize #6 { "" \raise #-10 "test"}}
the text and line are not "raised" the same distance.

C)  Both
\set crescendoSpanner   = #'dashed-line
\set decrescendoSpanner = #'dotted-line
do as expected, but
\set crescendoSpanner   = #'line
gives a dashed line.

                                     - Bruce




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