Proper Text output (kerning etc.)

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Proper Text output (kerning etc.)

Robert Memering
Hello all,

I recently upgraded to 2.7.13 from 2.4.4 because I wanted
to try some of the new features of the newer versions, esp.
"suggestAccidentals", which is a great improvement for me.
I am really happy! (Now I can listen to my midis from
full-of-musica-ficta renaissance pieces...)
I also agree that moving away from TeX is a good idea (I had
some serious problems with SUSE shipping misconfigured lilypond
2.4 packages that didn't work with tetex 3).

But when it comes to Text output, TeX is sadly missed.
I finally persuaded emacs to swallow fi-Ligatures and
em/en-dashes etc., so that I can at least get most of the
single characters I need. (ff and fl-Ligatures still missing...)

But what about metrics and kerning? Just type \markup{Ve}
(e.g. for "Veni sancte spiritus) and you know what I mean.
This hurts my eyes. I can't release books of sheet music
with text that looks like poor MS Word output.

Is there any way to get the old Text quality back?

Thanks in advance,
Robert


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Re: Proper Text output (kerning etc.)

Han-Wen Nienhuys
Robert Memering wrote:
> But what about metrics and kerning? Just type \markup{Ve}
> (e.g. for "Veni sancte spiritus) and you know what I mean.
> This hurts my eyes. I can't release books of sheet music
> with text that looks like poor MS Word output.
>
> Is there any way to get the old Text quality back?

Have you tried using a font which comes in OTF of TTF formats?



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  Han-Wen Nienhuys - [hidden email] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen


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Re: Proper Text output (kerning etc.)

Christian Ebert
* Han-Wen Nienhuys on Friday, October 28, 2005:
> Robert Memering wrote:
>> But what about metrics and kerning? Just type \markup{Ve}
>> (e.g. for "Veni sancte spiritus) and you know what I mean.
>> This hurts my eyes. I can't release books of sheet music
>> with text that looks like poor MS Word output.
>>
>> Is there any way to get the old Text quality back?
>
> Have you tried using a font which comes in OTF of TTF formats?

But then it still doesn't use the .tfm files, or does it?

Besides, at least on MacOS 10.3.9, including other fonts isn't
trivial at all; at least I couldn't get it to work, and when I
asked here nobody answered that he could.

lilypond -b (not to talk about lilypond-book) doesn't work either
because on the Mac you have kpathsea.dylib instead kpathsea.so. I
tried to patch 2.6 by replacing all instances of kpathsea.so with
kpathsea.dylib but couldn't get it to compile -- w/o my layman's
patch either for that matter. And the fink distri has the same
problem.

Whereas yesterday night I compiled 2.4.5 and updated my documents
to that version in a few hours.

Pango on MacOS X is quite restricted and I don't think giving up
the TeX backend completely is the right way to go. It might be
easier on other machines but I am not convinced yet that the text
output doesn't suffer.

c
--
_B A U S T E L L E N_ lesen!  --->> <http://www.blacktrash.org/baustellen.html>



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Re: Proper Text output (kerning etc.)

Han-Wen Nienhuys
Christian Ebert wrote:

> * Han-Wen Nienhuys on Friday, October 28, 2005:
>
>>Robert Memering wrote:
>>
>>>But what about metrics and kerning? Just type \markup{Ve}
>>>(e.g. for "Veni sancte spiritus) and you know what I mean.
>>>This hurts my eyes. I can't release books of sheet music
>>>with text that looks like poor MS Word output.
>>>
>>>Is there any way to get the old Text quality back?
>>
>>Have you tried using a font which comes in OTF of TTF formats?
>
>
> But then it still doesn't use the .tfm files, or does it?

No, but TTF and OTF also contain kerning information too.

> Besides, at least on MacOS 10.3.9, including other fonts isn't
> trivial at all; at least I couldn't get it to work, and when I
> asked here nobody answered that he could.

Put them into ~/.fonts/ or symlink them from there.

--
  Han-Wen Nienhuys - [hidden email] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen


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Re: Proper Text output (kerning etc.)

Han-Wen Nienhuys-2
In reply to this post by Christian Ebert
Christian Ebert wrote:

> Pango on MacOS X is quite restricted and I don't think giving up
> the TeX backend completely is the right way to go. It might be
> easier on other machines but I am not convinced yet that the text
> output doesn't suffer.
>

As an elucidation:  you should use fonts which are distributed as .ttf
files, like Verdana. Getting fonts working which are distributed as
dfonts or inside Resource forks, is something that I'd love to work on
that as a sponsored feature.

--

Han-Wen Nienhuys - [hidden email] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen

LilyPond Software Design
  -- Code for Music Notation
http://www.lilypond-design.com



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Re: Proper Text output (kerning etc.)

Christian Ebert
In reply to this post by Han-Wen Nienhuys
* Han-Wen Nienhuys on Saturday, October 29, 2005:

> Christian Ebert wrote:
>> * Han-Wen Nienhuys on Friday, October 28, 2005:
>>> Robert Memering wrote:
>>>
>>>> But what about metrics and kerning? Just type \markup{Ve}
>>>> (e.g. for "Veni sancte spiritus) and you know what I mean.
>>>> This hurts my eyes. I can't release books of sheet music
>>>> with text that looks like poor MS Word output.
>>>>
>>>> Is there any way to get the old Text quality back?
>>>
>>> Have you tried using a font which comes in OTF of TTF formats?
>>
>> But then it still doesn't use the .tfm files, or does it?
>
> No, but TTF and OTF also contain kerning information too.

Sure, but one of the reasons I use LaTeX for typesetting is that
I can profit from people who put a lot of time and effort to
create improved font metrics in sometimes crucial details -- like
you do for note engraving. Without the .tfm files this
improvement is lost.

>> Besides, at least on MacOS 10.3.9, including other fonts isn't
>> trivial at all; at least I couldn't get it to work, and when I
>> asked here nobody answered that he could.
>
> Put them into ~/.fonts/ or symlink them from there.

Thanks. I'll give it a try.

c
--
_B A U S T E L L E N_ lesen!  --->> <http://www.blacktrash.org/baustellen.html>



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Re: Proper Text output (kerning etc.)

Christian Ebert
* Christian Ebert on Saturday, October 29, 2005:
> * Han-Wen Nienhuys on Saturday, October 29, 2005:
>> Christian Ebert wrote:
>>> Besides, at least on MacOS 10.3.9, including other fonts isn't
>>> trivial at all; at least I couldn't get it to work, and when I
>>> asked here nobody answered that he could.
>>
>> Put them into ~/.fonts/ or symlink them from there.
>
> Thanks. I'll give it a try.

No go with .otf and 2.7.14 :-(

c
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Re: Proper Text output (kerning etc.)

Henning Hraban Ramm
In reply to this post by Han-Wen Nienhuys-2
Am 2005-10-29 um 10:57 schrieb Han-Wen Nienhuys:
> As an elucidation:  you should use fonts which are distributed  
> as .ttf files, like Verdana. Getting fonts working which are  
> distributed as dfonts or inside Resource forks, is something that  
> I'd love to work on that as a sponsored feature.

dfonts work, but only if they contain only one font.

I played around with fontconfig configuration, so that I got its  
fonts.cache-1 file everywhere I store fonts (texmf trees etc.), but  
these fonts never get used by LilyPond, regardless of format (TTF or  
anything else).
Don't know if the bug's in fontconfig/pango or LilyPond.

Greetlings from Lake Constance
---
fiëé visuëlle
Henning Hraban Ramm
http://www.fiee.net
http://angerweit.tikon.ch/lieder/
http://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)




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Re: Proper Text output (kerning etc.)

Han-Wen Nienhuys

Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:

>> As an elucidation:  you should use fonts which are distributed  as
>> .ttf files, like Verdana. Getting fonts working which are  distributed
>> as dfonts or inside Resource forks, is something that  I'd love to
>> work on that as a sponsored feature.
>
> dfonts work, but only if they contain only one font.
>
> I played around with fontconfig configuration, so that I got its  
> fonts.cache-1 file everywhere I store fonts (texmf trees etc.), but  
> these fonts never get used by LilyPond, regardless of format (TTF or  
> anything else).
> Don't know if the bug's in fontconfig/pango or LilyPond.

By default,  the MacOS .app only pays attention to fonts in
/Library/Fonts /System/Library/Fonts /usr/share/fonts/ and ~/.fonts ; It
should also load the ~/.fonts.conf config file.

--
  Han-Wen Nienhuys - [hidden email] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen


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