Old-fashioned rest symbol

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
7 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Old-fashioned rest symbol

Eduardo Vieira
Hello fellows,
 
Does anybody know why the symbol for a fourth-note rest that looks like an inverted "Z" does not feature in any font of music notation programs? I'm used to seeing that symbol a lot, especially in hymnbooks. I wonder why it is so discarded by music programs.
Is it worth including it in Lilypond, since our program already support some ancient notation? Depending on your opinions, I sure could help sponsoring it.
 
Regards,
 
Eduardo Vieira

_______________________________________________
lilypond-user mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Old-fashioned rest symbol

Han-Wen Nienhuys-2
Eduardo Vieira wrote:
> Hello fellows,
>  
> Does anybody know why the symbol for a fourth-note rest that looks like
> an inverted "Z" does not feature in any font of music notation programs?
> I'm used to seeing that symbol a lot, especially in hymnbooks. I wonder
> why it is so discarded by music programs.
> Is it worth including it in Lilypond, since our program already support
> some ancient notation? Depending on your opinions, I sure could help
> sponsoring it.

Can you point me to an image of this symbol?

--

Han-Wen Nienhuys - [hidden email] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen

LilyPond Software Design
  -- Code for Music Notation
http://www.lilypond-design.com



_______________________________________________
lilypond-user mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Old-fashioned rest symbol

Daniel Johnson-2
Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:

> Eduardo Vieira wrote:
>
>> Hello fellows,
>>  
>> Does anybody know why the symbol for a fourth-note rest that looks
>> like an inverted "Z" does not feature in any font of music notation
>> programs? I'm used to seeing that symbol a lot, especially in
>> hymnbooks. I wonder why it is so discarded by music programs.
>> Is it worth including it in Lilypond, since our program already
>> support some ancient notation? Depending on your opinions, I sure
>> could help sponsoring it.
>
>
> Can you point me to an image of this symbol?
>
In my experience, this rest looks like a backward eighth-rest;
occasionally one sees it with both an upper and lower flag, hence the
"Z" -- though actually it's a backward "Z".  It seems to have been in
fashion mostly in the late 19th century, and appears mostly in hymnals
and the like, although I have also seen it in certain Bach chorale
scores.  It is now considered obsolete (it's very hard to read IMO) but
since Lilypond specializes in "obsolete" notation :-) perhaps it belongs
here anyway?

--Daniel


_______________________________________________
lilypond-user mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Old-fashioned rest symbol

Mats Bengtsson-6


Daniel Johnson wrote:
> In my experience, this rest looks like a backward eighth-rest;

You mean like the one shown in the third score line in the example
called rests.ly in the Tips and Tricks document? It's also described
in the section on "Ancient rests".

> occasionally one sees it with both an upper and lower flag, hence the
> "Z" -- though actually it's a backward "Z".
This one, we don't have for the moment. If you have a chance to send a
scanned copy from some old score to the mailing list and perhaps some
sponsoring to Han-Wen, you might see it in future versions.

    /Mats


_______________________________________________
lilypond-user mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Old-fashioned rest symbol

David Raleigh Arnold
In reply to this post by Daniel Johnson-2
On Thursday 17 November 2005 12:58 pm, Daniel Johnson wrote:

> Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
>
> > Eduardo Vieira wrote:
> >
> >> Hello fellows,
> >>  
> >> Does anybody know why the symbol for a fourth-note rest that looks
> >> like an inverted "Z" does not feature in any font of music notation
> >> programs? I'm used to seeing that symbol a lot, especially in
> >> hymnbooks. I wonder why it is so discarded by music programs.
> >> Is it worth including it in Lilypond, since our program already
> >> support some ancient notation? Depending on your opinions, I sure
> >> could help sponsoring it.
> >
> >
> > Can you point me to an image of this symbol?
> >
> In my experience, this rest looks like a backward eighth-rest;
> occasionally one sees it with both an upper and lower flag, hence the
> "Z" -- though actually it's a backward "Z".  It seems to have been in
> fashion mostly in the late 19th century, and appears mostly in hymnals
> and the like, although I have also seen it in certain Bach chorale
> scores.  It is now considered obsolete (it's very hard to read IMO)
but
> since Lilypond specializes in "obsolete" notation :-) perhaps it
belongs
> here anyway?

First use that I know of is 1808.  It replaced the 'classical rest',
which was much too easily confused with the eighth rest.  The
advantage of the Z or S rest was that it was not nearly as tall as the
old rest which is in use now, which was simply a letter 'r' designed
to follow a straight sided letter.  The shorter height made it easier
to fit three or more parts on one staff.  It's still better for that.

With the virtual disappearance of guitar music publishing in the
1880's, music publishers reverted to the old blackletter Gutenberg 'r'.
The hymnbooks to which you refer were probably typeset.  Type was
used until it wore out, and that accounts for your seeing it in
later hymnbooks.

I posted a scan with lots of them some years ago.  In sum:

1.  It is the newest rest we have and therefore it is
out of fashion rather than obsolete.

2.  It was more early than late 19th century.

daveA

--
Free download of technical exercises worth a lifetime of practice:
"Dynamic Guitar Technique": http://www.openguitar.com/instruction.html
email: "David Raleigh Arnold" <[hidden email]>|<[hidden email]>
(Full name in address field is needed to pass filter)



_______________________________________________
lilypond-user mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Old-fashioned rest symbol

Vincent-35
In reply to this post by Daniel Johnson-2
>> Can you point me to an image of this symbol?
>>
> In my experience, this rest looks like a backward eighth-rest;

I've seen it in some music theory books printed exactly as a 8th rest  
mirrored over a vertical axis.


_______________________________________________
lilypond-user mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Old-fashioned rest symbol

Karl Hammar
> >> Can you point me to an image of this symbol?
> >>
> > In my experience, this rest looks like a backward eighth-rest;
>
> I've seen it in some music theory books printed exactly as a 8th rest  
> mirrored over a vertical axis.

Go to:

http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.6/Documentation/user/out-www/lilypond/source/
input/test/out-www/collated-files.html

scroll down to rests.ly and look at the "classical" example.

Regards
/Karl




_______________________________________________
lilypond-user mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user