[OT] Identification of a bagpipe embellishment?

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[OT] Identification of a bagpipe embellishment?

guocuozuoduo

Hello all,

 

I am certain that the LilyPond community has a number of bagpipe players, and I hope that I do not bother you with the following problem that I have come across:

I am transcribing a bagpipe piece written in Bb major into “conventional” notation (where the scale is based on A), and come across the following embellishment:

In conventional notation it would be written as:

In case Mailman refuses to send the images, the embellishment consists of what appears to be the beginning of a F doubling (written as the grace notes High G and F), then a strike to D, then the main note becomes a High G. Putting aside the possibility of the fingering, the sequence is gfdG, where lowercase letters are grace notes and the uppercase letter is the main note.

However, I am having trouble finding the name of the embellishment. I have tried searching it by the notes, but without luck.

 

The embellishment in question is from the transcription of an avant-garde piece: The Most Unwanted Music by Dave Soldier. In the score, the transcriber makes a note that “[t]he score cannot reflect accurately all the music, and the performers should also

listen to the CD”, so it is also possible that this embellishment is actually the result of a transcription error.

 

I am by no means a professional bagpipe player, so any advice would be much appreciated.

 

Kind regards,

Brian Guo

 

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RE: [OT] Identification of a bagpipe embellishment?

Mark Stephen Mrotek

Brian,

 

Not being a piper I am not sure of nomenclature, yet Lilypond has the command “\grace”.

Your example would be notated

 

\version "2.19.84"

\relative c'' {

  \grace {g'32 f d} g4

}

 

Mark

 

From: lilypond-user [mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Guo Brian
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2020 2:48 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [OT] Identification of a bagpipe embellishment?

 

Hello all,

 

I am certain that the LilyPond community has a number of bagpipe players, and I hope that I do not bother you with the following problem that I have come across:

I am transcribing a bagpipe piece written in Bb major into “conventional” notation (where the scale is based on A), and come across the following embellishment:

In conventional notation it would be written as:

In case Mailman refuses to send the images, the embellishment consists of what appears to be the beginning of a F doubling (written as the grace notes High G and F), then a strike to D, then the main note becomes a High G. Putting aside the possibility of the fingering, the sequence is gfdG, where lowercase letters are grace notes and the uppercase letter is the main note.

However, I am having trouble finding the name of the embellishment. I have tried searching it by the notes, but without luck.

 

The embellishment in question is from the transcription of an avant-garde piece: The Most Unwanted Music by Dave Soldier. In the score, the transcriber makes a note that “[t]he score cannot reflect accurately all the music, and the performers should also

listen to the CD”, so it is also possible that this embellishment is actually the result of a transcription error.

 

I am by no means a professional bagpipe player, so any advice would be much appreciated.

 

Kind regards,

Brian Guo

 

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Re: [OT] Identification of a bagpipe embellishment?

Hans Åberg-2
In reply to this post by guocuozuoduo

> On 11 Feb 2020, at 11:47, Guo Brian <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I am certain that the LilyPond community has a number of bagpipe players, and I hope that I do not bother you with the following problem that I have come across:
>
> I am transcribing a bagpipe piece written in Bb major into “conventional” notation (where the scale is based on A), and come across the following embellishment: <5DA7133284F3465EB0BE9810BF3AA654.png>
>
> In conventional notation it would be written as: <A71E9284AA614F51BA611654DAFC8FDF.png>
>
> In case Mailman refuses to send the images, the embellishment consists of what appears to be the beginning of a F doubling (written as the grace notes High G and F), then a strike to D, then the main note becomes a High G. Putting aside the possibility of the fingering, the sequence is gfdG, where lowercase letters are grace notes and the uppercase letter is the main note.
>
> However, I am having trouble finding the name of the embellishment. I have tried searching it by the notes, but without luck.

In other types of music, one can combine ornaments. So for example, as in bagpipe.ly, a \hslurg followed by a \grd.



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Re: [OT] Identification of a bagpipe embellishment?

User mailing list
In reply to this post by Mark Stephen Mrotek
I hesitated in replying since I started to learn the Highland Pipes a
__long__ time ago, and never really stuck with them.  In "Logans
Complete Tutor for the Highland Bagpipe"* from page X onwards they are
consistently referred to as gracenotes.  They can be single or up to
five gracenotes (though I counted up to 7 in some exercises).  They are
essential between repeated notes or where there are awkward fingering
changes because the bagpipe cannot be tongued as for other wind instruments.

HTH,
Martin

*My version is undated, revised by Captain John MacLellan of the Army
School of Piping

On 11/02/2020 14:11, Mark Stephen Mrotek wrote:

> Brian,
>
> Not being a piper I am not sure of nomenclature, yet Lilypond has the
> command “\grace”.
>
> Your example would be notated
>
> \version "2.19.84"
>
> \relative c'' {
>
>    \grace {g'32 f d} g4
>
> }
>
> Mark
>
> *From:*lilypond-user
> [mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=[hidden email]] *On Behalf
> Of *Guo Brian
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 11, 2020 2:48 AM
> *To:* [hidden email]
> *Subject:* [OT] Identification of a bagpipe embellishment?
>
> Hello all,
>
> I am certain that the LilyPond community has a number of bagpipe
> players, and I hope that I do not bother you with the following problem
> that I have come across:
>
> I am transcribing a bagpipe piece written in Bb major into
> “conventional” notation (where the scale is based on A), and come across
> the following embellishment:
>
> In conventional notation it would be written as:
>
> In case Mailman refuses to send the images, the embellishment consists
> of what appears to be the beginning of a F doubling (written as the
> grace notes High G and F), then a strike to D, then the main note
> becomes a High G. Putting aside the possibility of the fingering, the
> sequence is gfdG, where lowercase letters are grace notes and the
> uppercase letter is the main note.
>
> However, I am having trouble finding the name of the embellishment. I
> have tried searching it by the notes, but without luck.
>
> The embellishment in question is from the transcription of an
> avant-garde piece: /The Most Unwanted Music/ by Dave Soldier. In the
> score, the transcriber makes a note that “[t]he score cannot reflect
> accurately all the music, and the performers should also
>
> listen to the CD”, so it is also possible that this embellishment is
> actually the result of a transcription error.
>
> I am by no means a professional bagpipe player, so any advice would be
> much appreciated.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Brian Guo
>

--
J Martin Rushton MBCS

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Re: [OT] Identification of a bagpipe embellishment?

guocuozuoduo

Hello all,

Thanks for the info, but I know that I could just \include “bagpipe.ly” and use the command defined there \pgrace{g32[ f d]}; I was wondering if there was a conventional name for the embellishment (even if it is not defined in bagpipe.ly), for example, gracenotes HighGDE (followed by the main note D) is a doubling on D, gracenotes LowGDC is a throw on D, GDG is a grip/leumluath, GDGE is a taorluath, and so on.

Kind regards,
Brian Guo

Slava Novieji Vieti Dielienieji

发件人: lilypond-user <lilypond-user-bounces+brian777guo=[hidden email]> 代表 J Martin Rushton via LilyPond user discussion <[hidden email]>
发送时间: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 3:51:29 AM
收件人: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
主题: Re: [OT] Identification of a bagpipe embellishment?
 
I hesitated in replying since I started to learn the Highland Pipes a
__long__ time ago, and never really stuck with them.  In "Logans
Complete Tutor for the Highland Bagpipe"* from page X onwards they are
consistently referred to as gracenotes.  They can be single or up to
five gracenotes (though I counted up to 7 in some exercises).  They are
essential between repeated notes or where there are awkward fingering
changes because the bagpipe cannot be tongued as for other wind instruments.

HTH,
Martin

*My version is undated, revised by Captain John MacLellan of the Army
School of Piping

On 11/02/2020 14:11, Mark Stephen Mrotek wrote:
> Brian,
>
> Not being a piper I am not sure of nomenclature, yet Lilypond has the
> command “\grace”.
>
> Your example would be notated
>
> \version "2.19.84"
>
> \relative c'' {
>
>    \grace {g'32 f d} g4
>
> }
>
> Mark
>
> *From:*lilypond-user
> [[hidden email]] *On Behalf
> Of *Guo Brian
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 11, 2020 2:48 AM
> *To:* [hidden email]
> *Subject:* [OT] Identification of a bagpipe embellishment?
>
> Hello all,
>
> I am certain that the LilyPond community has a number of bagpipe
> players, and I hope that I do not bother you with the following problem
> that I have come across:
>
> I am transcribing a bagpipe piece written in Bb major into
> “conventional” notation (where the scale is based on A), and come across
> the following embellishment:
>
> In conventional notation it would be written as:
>
> In case Mailman refuses to send the images, the embellishment consists
> of what appears to be the beginning of a F doubling (written as the
> grace notes High G and F), then a strike to D, then the main note
> becomes a High G. Putting aside the possibility of the fingering, the
> sequence is gfdG, where lowercase letters are grace notes and the
> uppercase letter is the main note.
>
> However, I am having trouble finding the name of the embellishment. I
> have tried searching it by the notes, but without luck.
>
> The embellishment in question is from the transcription of an
> avant-garde piece: /The Most Unwanted Music/ by Dave Soldier. In the
> score, the transcriber makes a note that “[t]he score cannot reflect
> accurately all the music, and the performers should also
>
> listen to the CD”, so it is also possible that this embellishment is
> actually the result of a transcription error.
>
> I am by no means a professional bagpipe player, so any advice would be
> much appreciated.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Brian Guo
>

--
J Martin Rushton MBCS

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Re: [OT] Identification of a bagpipe embellishment?

Sven Axelsson-3
On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 at 20:16, Guo Brian <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello all,

Thanks for the info, but I know that I could just \include “bagpipe.ly” and use the command defined there \pgrace{g32[ f d]}; I was wondering if there was a conventional name for the embellishment (even if it is not defined in bagpipe.ly), for example, gracenotes HighGDE (followed by the main note D) is a doubling on D, gracenotes LowGDC is a throw on D, GDG is a grip/leumluath, GDGE is a taorluath, and so on.

Hello,

Piper and the creator of "bagpipe.ly" here. Without listening to the music and some more notational context I'd say that is a misprint. It looks like a slur on f followed by a g melody note which is incorrect. A slur should start with a gracenote higher than the melody note (either g or high a), then the melody note, then a gracenote lower than the melody note (either one step lower or several steps depending on the finger position). In this case it should be "\slurg g4" which should expand to "\pgrace{A32[ g f]}". It looks like the definition in "bagpipe.ly" is wrong here though.

--
Sven Axelsson
++++++++++[>++++++++++>+++++++++++>++++++++++>++++++
>++++<<<<<-]>++++.+.++++.>+++++.>+.<<-.>>+.>++++.<<.
+++.>-.<<++.>>----.<++.>>>++++++.<<<<.>>++++.<----.
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Re: [OT] Identification of a bagpipe embellishment?

Sven Axelsson-3
On Fri, 21 Feb 2020 at 07:30, Guo Brian <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello,

 

Sorry for late reply, but the line containing the embellishment is as follows:

The original score (notated a semitone higher) can be found here, on page 5.


OK. Yes, it is a misprint. This is a traditional dance tune called The Devil in the Kitchen, apparently unattributed in the score.
 
--
Sven Axelsson
++++++++++[>++++++++++>+++++++++++>++++++++++>++++++
>++++<<<<<-]>++++.+.++++.>+++++.>+.<<-.>>+.>++++.<<.
+++.>-.<<++.>>----.<++.>>>++++++.<<<<.>>++++.<----.