NR 4.2.2, table column should be called "glyph name"?

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NR 4.2.2, table column should be called "glyph name"?

Federico Bruni-2
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/setting-the-staff-size.html

"""
Automatic font weight at different sizes

The Emmentaler font provides the set of Feta musical glyphs in eight
different sizes; each one tuned for a different staff size. The smaller
the glyph size, the “heavier” it becomes, so as to match the
relatively thicker staff lines. Recommended glyphs sizes are listed in
the following table:

font name staff height (pt) staff height (mm) use
feta11 11.22 3.9 pocket scores
feta13 12.60 4.4
[...]
"""

Should "font name" be replaced with "glyph name"?




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Re: NR 4.2.2, table column should be called "glyph name"?

Carl Sorensen-3
On 6/8/17 10:26 AM, "Federico Bruni" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/setting-the-staff-siz
>e.html
>
>"""
>Automatic font weight at different sizes
>
>The Emmentaler font provides the set of Feta musical glyphs in eight
>different sizes; each one tuned for a different staff size. The smaller
>the glyph size, the ³heavier² it becomes, so as to match the
>relatively thicker staff lines. Recommended glyphs sizes are listed in
>the following table:
>
>font name staff height (pt) staff height (mm) use
>feta11 11.22 3.9 pocket scores
>feta13 12.60 4.4
>[...]
>"""
>
>Should "font name" be replaced with "glyph name"?

Not in my opinion.  The font is feta11 (the font family is feta).  The
staff height is 11.22 pt.  The staff height is 3.9 mm.

Thanks,

Carl


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Re: NR 4.2.2, table column should be called "glyph name"?

Federico Bruni-2


Il giorno sab 10 giu 2017 alle 2:54, Carl Sorensen <[hidden email]>
ha scritto:

> On 6/8/17 10:26 AM, "Federico Bruni" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/setting-the-staff-siz
>> e.html
>>
>> """
>> Automatic font weight at different sizes
>>
>> The Emmentaler font provides the set of Feta musical glyphs in eight
>> different sizes; each one tuned for a different staff size. The
>> smaller
>> the glyph size, the ³heavier² it becomes, so as to match the
>> relatively thicker staff lines. Recommended glyphs sizes are listed
>> in
>> the following table:
>>
>> font name staff height (pt) staff height (mm) use
>> feta11 11.22 3.9 pocket scores
>> feta13 12.60 4.4
>> [...]
>> """
>>
>> Should "font name" be replaced with "glyph name"?
>
> Not in my opinion.  The font is feta11 (the font family is feta).  The
> staff height is 11.22 pt.  The staff height is 3.9 mm.
>
>

Hi Carl, are you sure?
The context of my report was:

commit 18d03fa6a724b0102ccc47d194209802cea02f2e
Author: James Lowe
Date: Sun Mar 5 16:34:39 2017 +0000

    Doc - NR + CG: Clarify Emmentaler is the 'font' and Feta/Parmesan
are glyphs

    Issue 4966

    Distinguish between Emmentaler
    the 'font' and Feta/Parmesan
    glyphs that make up the
    Emmentaler font family.




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Re: NR 4.2.2, table column should be called "glyph name"?

Carl Sorensen-3
On 6/12/17 4:06 AM, "Federico Bruni" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
>Il giorno sab 10 giu 2017 alle 2:54, Carl Sorensen <[hidden email]>
>ha scritto:
>> On 6/8/17 10:26 AM, "Federico Bruni" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/setting-the-staff-s
>>>iz
>>> e.html
>>>
>>> """
>>> Automatic font weight at different sizes
>>>
>>> The Emmentaler font provides the set of Feta musical glyphs in eight
>>> different sizes; each one tuned for a different staff size. The
>>> smaller
>>> the glyph size, the ³heavier² it becomes, so as to match the
>>> relatively thicker staff lines. Recommended glyphs sizes are listed
>>> in
>>> the following table:
>>>
>>> font name staff height (pt) staff height (mm) use
>>> feta11 11.22 3.9 pocket scores
>>> feta13 12.60 4.4
>>> [...]
>>> """
>>>
>>> Should "font name" be replaced with "glyph name"?
>>
>> Not in my opinion.  The font is feta11 (the font family is feta).  The
>> staff height is 11.22 pt.  The staff height is 3.9 mm.
>>
>>
>
>Hi Carl, are you sure?
>The context of my report was:
>
>commit 18d03fa6a724b0102ccc47d194209802cea02f2e
>Author: James Lowe
>Date: Sun Mar 5 16:34:39 2017 +0000
>
>    Doc - NR + CG: Clarify Emmentaler is the 'font' and Feta/Parmesan
>are glyphs
>
>    Issue 4966
>
>    Distinguish between Emmentaler
>    the 'font' and Feta/Parmesan
>    glyphs that make up the
>    Emmentaler font family.

In this context, I guess that the proper word is 'subfont' rather than
'glyph'.  The emmentaler font is made up of several subfonts, according to
the files in the out/mf directory.  In the case of emmentaler-11 (which is
the font), the subfonts include
feta11
feta-noteheads11
feta-flags11
parmesan11
parmesan-noteheads11
feta-alphabet11

Each of these subfonts is a collection of glyphs.  And the glyphs have
individual names.

If I were to try to fix the problem you have identified, I would probably
change the contents of the first column from 'fetaxx' to 'emmentaler-xx'.
I believe that when one sets the font-size in general, it applies to
Emmentaler, not to Feta.  The only place I have found in the documentation
that uses anything other than the whole font is in NR 1.8.3, where some
font-encodings are used.  But I cannot find any documentation that
describes which glyphs are in which encodings, so I don't know how to use
this in general.

So, in looking at all of this, my recommendation is not to change the
heading of the table, but to change the contents of the first column.

Thanks,

Carl


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Re: NR 4.2.2, table column should be called "glyph name"?

Simon Albrecht-2
In reply to this post by Federico Bruni-2
On 12.06.2017 12:06, Federico Bruni wrote:

>> Not in my opinion.  The font is feta11 (the font family is feta).  The
>> staff height is 11.22 pt.  The staff height is 3.9 mm.
>
> Hi Carl, are you sure?
> The context of my report was:
>
> commit 18d03fa6a724b0102ccc47d194209802cea02f2e
> Author: James Lowe
> Date: Sun Mar 5 16:34:39 2017 +0000
>
>    Doc - NR + CG: Clarify Emmentaler is the 'font' and Feta/Parmesan
> are glyphs
>
>    Issue 4966
>
>    Distinguish between Emmentaler
>    the 'font' and Feta/Parmesan
>    glyphs that make up the
>    Emmentaler font family.

That is quite imprecise wording: Feta and Parmesan are subsets of the
Emmentaler font, not individual glyphs.
Whether ‘font name’ in that NR table is also imprecise is a matter of
little importance IMO – it’s the least confusing choice of words and I
don’t see any need to change it.

Best, Simon

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Re: NR 4.2.2, table column should be called "glyph name"?

tisimst
In reply to this post by Carl Sorensen-3


On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 6:18 AM, Carl Sorensen-3 [via Lilypond] <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 6/12/17 4:06 AM, "Federico Bruni" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
>Il giorno sab 10 giu 2017 alle 2:54, Carl Sorensen <[hidden email]>
>ha scritto:
>> On 6/8/17 10:26 AM, "Federico Bruni" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Should "font name" be replaced with "glyph name"?
>>
>> Not in my opinion.  The font is feta11 (the font family is feta).  The
>> staff height is 11.22 pt.  The staff height is 3.9 mm.
>>
>>
>
>Hi Carl, are you sure?
>The context of my report was:
>
>commit 18d03fa6a724b0102ccc47d194209802cea02f2e
>Author: James Lowe
>Date: Sun Mar 5 16:34:39 2017 +0000
>
>    Doc - NR + CG: Clarify Emmentaler is the 'font' and Feta/Parmesan
>are glyphs
>
>    Issue 4966
>
>    Distinguish between Emmentaler
>    the 'font' and Feta/Parmesan
>    glyphs that make up the
>    Emmentaler font family.
In this context, I guess that the proper word is 'subfont' rather than
'glyph'.  The emmentaler font is made up of several subfonts, according to
the files in the out/mf directory.  In the case of emmentaler-11 (which is
the font), the subfonts include
feta11
feta-noteheads11
feta-flags11
parmesan11
parmesan-noteheads11
feta-alphabet11

Each of these subfonts is a collection of glyphs.  And the glyphs have
individual names.

If I were to try to fix the problem you have identified, I would probably
change the contents of the first column from 'fetaxx' to 'emmentaler-xx'.

Having delved into the depths of the way fonts are created and work in LilyPond, I agree that this is the most precise correction here. I guess the only question is should it be "emmentaler-xx" (which is the font file name) or "Emmentaler-xx" (which is the internal font name). Which is the correct reference? It's a small detail, but perhaps it's best to get it right and be done with it.

I believe that when one sets the font-size in general, it applies to
Emmentaler, not to Feta.  The only place I have found in the documentation
that uses anything other than the whole font is in NR 1.8.3, where some
font-encodings are used.  But I cannot find any documentation that
describes which glyphs are in which encodings, so I don't know how to use
this in general.

The three encodings are basically as follows:
- fetaText: all alpha-numeric glyphs (i.e., /space, 0-9, and the letters f, m, p, r, s, z).
- fetaBraces: all grand-staff brace glyphs (all of which are found in the font "emmentaler-brace")
- fetaMusic: every other glyph, including those found in the "parmesan" sub-set of glyphs.

I suppose this would be good information to have documented somewhere.

Also, I wonder if a new entry should be in the "Entire Document Fonts" sub-section to describe the usage of set-global fonts? I can't say it should completely replace the make-pango-font-tree example, but there isn't an entry for set-global-fonts anywhere at the moment.
 
So, in looking at all of this, my recommendation is not to change the
heading of the table, but to change the contents of the first column.

Agreed.

On a side, but related, note, the whole business with using the names "feta" and "emmentaler" interchangeably is a bit confusing all throughout the code. For example, the use of 'feta as the font-family symbol for the music font. Why not just call it 'music? The three main encodings could then be 'musicText, 'musicBraces, and 'musicSymbol (I've not bought-off that last one). Perhaps it's just me coming from the world were other music fonts are now available. After all, we use the more generic terms 'roman, 'sans, 'typewriter for the main text font-families.

That's all for now.

Best,
Abraham
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