Middle line stem direction in 2.8

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
6 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Middle line stem direction in 2.8

Father Panteleimon
In the 2.7 development versions prior to the release of 2.8.0 , the stem
directions for notes on the middle line of the staff followed the direction
of neighoboring notes (a feature sponsored by Mike Rolish and Basil Crow).
It appears that in 2.8.0, this feature (which looks very nice and helps with
slurs, too) became an option rather than the default. So I looked at the
snippet behind the appropriate graphic on the "changes" page and found this:
\new Voice \with {
  \consists "Melody_engraver"
  \override Stem #'neutral-direction = #'()
}
And then the \relative, the notes, etc.

Since I have no other need for a "\new Voice \with{.." in my scores, I tried
putting  \override Stem #'neutral-direction = #'() in the layout block. This
worked unders windows but not under linux (which runs lilypond much more
quickly).
I also tried the entire \new Voice...etc. snippet under linux and that
didn't work either, although it does under windows. The .ly files I'm using
for both OS's are exactly the same. Is there something wrong with my
installation of lily under linux, or else can someone tell me some other way
to make Mike & Basil's feature default for middle-line note stems again? I
am assuming that it was changed from default to option intentionally, as the
wording of the "changes" doc suggests.


Fr. P



_______________________________________________
lilypond-user mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Middle line stem direction in 2.8

Mats Bengtsson-4
Are you really sure that you use the same LilyPond version both in
Windows and Linux? These differences cannot possibly be platform
dependent as far as I can understand.

For the reasoning behind the change, see
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2006-03/msg00104.html

   /Mats

Quoting Father Panteleimon <[hidden email]>:

> In the 2.7 development versions prior to the release of 2.8.0 , the stem
> directions for notes on the middle line of the staff followed the direction
> of neighoboring notes (a feature sponsored by Mike Rolish and Basil Crow).
> It appears that in 2.8.0, this feature (which looks very nice and helps with
> slurs, too) became an option rather than the default. So I looked at the
> snippet behind the appropriate graphic on the "changes" page and found this:
> \new Voice \with {
>  \consists "Melody_engraver"
>  \override Stem #'neutral-direction = #'()
> }
> And then the \relative, the notes, etc.
>
> Since I have no other need for a "\new Voice \with{.." in my scores, I tried
> putting  \override Stem #'neutral-direction = #'() in the layout block. This
> worked unders windows but not under linux (which runs lilypond much more
> quickly).
> I also tried the entire \new Voice...etc. snippet under linux and that
> didn't work either, although it does under windows. The .ly files I'm using
> for both OS's are exactly the same. Is there something wrong with my
> installation of lily under linux, or else can someone tell me some other way
> to make Mike & Basil's feature default for middle-line note stems again? I
> am assuming that it was changed from default to option intentionally, as the
> wording of the "changes" doc suggests.
>
>
> Fr. P
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> lilypond-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>





_______________________________________________
lilypond-user mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

RE: Middle line stem direction in 2.8

Father Panteleimon
Yes, I was running 2.8.0 on both platforms with exact same .ly files. I
uninstalled 2.8.0 from linux (SuSe 10) and tried both 2.8.1 and 2.9 with the
same results. Only 2.7 will do the stem thing under linux. I didn't know
decidous note-stems were bad. They sure look nice, though, especially where
slurs are involved. They keep slurs from having their ends floating high
above the notes. I wonder (having no access to examples) if the old-school
engravers would have the b-stem down in a phrase like this:

\relative c'' {  \set Score.timing = ##f \key d \major
                  g4 g8[( a)] b2( a4. g8) fis4 e fis8( g) a2 }

That leaves a big white space between b2 and its slur, which looks odd to
me. I imagine that old-school engravers had a very limited number of slur
shapes to work with, so this case would make the levitating slur the only
option, unless the note-stem is inverted, in which case the slur looks very
natural. So what did the old-timers do here, and did they do it from
aesthetics, necessity, or convention?
Just wondering.

Fr. P.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mats Bengtsson [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 2:58 PM
To: Father Panteleimon
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Middle line stem direction in 2.8

Are you really sure that you use the same LilyPond version both in Windows
and Linux? These differences cannot possibly be platform dependent as far as
I can understand.

For the reasoning behind the change, see
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2006-03/msg00104.html

   /Mats

Quoting Father Panteleimon <[hidden email]>:

> In the 2.7 development versions prior to the release of 2.8.0 , the
> stem directions for notes on the middle line of the staff followed the
> direction of neighoboring notes (a feature sponsored by Mike Rolish and
Basil Crow).
> It appears that in 2.8.0, this feature (which looks very nice and
> helps with slurs, too) became an option rather than the default. So I
> looked at the snippet behind the appropriate graphic on the "changes" page
and found this:

> \new Voice \with {
>  \consists "Melody_engraver"
>  \override Stem #'neutral-direction = #'() } And then the \relative,
> the notes, etc.
>
> Since I have no other need for a "\new Voice \with{.." in my scores, I
> tried putting  \override Stem #'neutral-direction = #'() in the layout
> block. This worked unders windows but not under linux (which runs
> lilypond much more quickly).
> I also tried the entire \new Voice...etc. snippet under linux and that
> didn't work either, although it does under windows. The .ly files I'm
> using for both OS's are exactly the same. Is there something wrong
> with my installation of lily under linux, or else can someone tell me
> some other way to make Mike & Basil's feature default for middle-line
> note stems again? I am assuming that it was changed from default to
> option intentionally, as the wording of the "changes" doc suggests.
>
>
> Fr. P
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> lilypond-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>






_______________________________________________
lilypond-user mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

RE: Middle line stem direction in 2.8 - oops

Father Panteleimon
In reply to this post by Mats Bengtsson-4

Wait a minute. Think I just found a misspelling in my linux file.
Not platform dependent. Chump-dependent. Sincerest apologies.
Fr. P

-----Original Message-----
From: Mats Bengtsson [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 2:58 PM
To: Father Panteleimon
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Middle line stem direction in 2.8

Are you really sure that you use the same LilyPond version both in Windows
and Linux? These differences cannot possibly be platform dependent as far as
I can understand.

For the reasoning behind the change, see
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2006-03/msg00104.html

   /Mats

Quoting Father Panteleimon <[hidden email]>:

> In the 2.7 development versions prior to the release of 2.8.0 , the
> stem directions for notes on the middle line of the staff followed the
> direction of neighoboring notes (a feature sponsored by Mike Rolish and
Basil Crow).
> It appears that in 2.8.0, this feature (which looks very nice and
> helps with slurs, too) became an option rather than the default. So I
> looked at the snippet behind the appropriate graphic on the "changes" page
and found this:

> \new Voice \with {
>  \consists "Melody_engraver"
>  \override Stem #'neutral-direction = #'() } And then the \relative,
> the notes, etc.
>
> Since I have no other need for a "\new Voice \with{.." in my scores, I
> tried putting  \override Stem #'neutral-direction = #'() in the layout
> block. This worked unders windows but not under linux (which runs
> lilypond much more quickly).
> I also tried the entire \new Voice...etc. snippet under linux and that
> didn't work either, although it does under windows. The .ly files I'm
> using for both OS's are exactly the same. Is there something wrong
> with my installation of lily under linux, or else can someone tell me
> some other way to make Mike & Basil's feature default for middle-line
> note stems again? I am assuming that it was changed from default to
> option intentionally, as the wording of the "changes" doc suggests.
>
>
> Fr. P
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> lilypond-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>






_______________________________________________
lilypond-user mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Middle line stem direction in 2.8

Werner LEMBERG
In reply to this post by Father Panteleimon

> I imagine that old-school engravers had a very limited number of slur
> shapes to work with,

No.  Slurs were always drawn by hand.

> so this case would make the levitating slur the only option, unless
> the note-stem is inverted, in which case the slur looks very
> natural.  So what did the old-timers do here, and did they do it
> from aesthetics, necessity, or convention?

If necessary, they have shortened the stem length, I think, or they
have inverted the stem direction.  Both is possible in lilypond, but
the automatic default for stems without beams on the middle line
*must* be down.


    Werner


_______________________________________________
lilypond-user mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

RE: Middle line stem direction in 2.8

Father Panteleimon
 
Thank you, Werner, for the informative reply regarding stem direction &
slurs. The "levitating slur" is the only phenomenon that ever makes me think
that LP's output looks unfinished or awkward, although I may be ill-informed
and prejudiced on this matter, since the wysiwyg output I'm accustomed to
always has the slurs begin and end very close to noteheads or stems. If
slurs were always hand drawn, and can't see (intuitively) why anyone would
have them so far from the note as they appear in my previous example.
Perhaps the old-engraving methods of dealing with this problem can be
studied and incorporated into LP at some future point.
But even if they aren't it will still look better than anything else. [8^)>

Fr. P

-----Original Message-----
From: Werner LEMBERG [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 12:55 AM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Middle line stem direction in 2.8


> I imagine that old-school engravers had a very limited number of slur
> shapes to work with,

No.  Slurs were always drawn by hand.

> so this case would make the levitating slur the only option, unless
> the note-stem is inverted, in which case the slur looks very natural.  
> So what did the old-timers do here, and did they do it from
> aesthetics, necessity, or convention?

If necessary, they have shortened the stem length, I think, or they have
inverted the stem direction.  Both is possible in lilypond, but the
automatic default for stems without beams on the middle line
*must* be down.


    Werner



_______________________________________________
lilypond-user mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user