Mac testers needed for Frescobaldi!

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Re: Mac testers needed for Frescobaldi!

Stanton Sanderson-2

On May 5, 2014, at 4:08 AM, Davide Liessi <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Except for these, the application bundle was working correctly on all machines.
> If Wilbert agrees, I think that starting with the next version
> Frescobaldi will be distributed also as a downloadable self-contained
> Mac application bundle!

Davide,

This is very good news indeed. Thanks for the work of all (especially Wilbert) who have made this tool available to Lilypond users.

Stan
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Re: Mac testers needed for Frescobaldi!

jeff235
In reply to this post by Davide Liessi-2

On Tuesday, April 22, 2014 12:42:26 PM UTC+2, Davide Liessi wrote:
Dear Frescobaldi&LilyPond&Mac users,
as some of you may know, I'm trying to make Frescobaldi more
Mac-friendly, by packaging it as a native application bundle inside a
standard DMG disk image

Hello,

I had been using Frescobaldi successfully on OS X 10.9.2, installed via Homebrew. Everything was working well. A few days ago, the Music View (PDF viewer) stopped working, showing "Unable to load popplerqt4 module". I don't know what broke this. I recently installed a Canon Printer Driver system update from Apple, but other than that, I haven't done anything to my system.

I tried uninstalling and reinstalling via Homebrew without success. Well, the install completed successfully, but still no Music View.

Next, I downloaded the DMG containing the standalone Mac app to see if that would work better for me. Sure enough, the Music View reappeared in all its glory. But I noticed that the MIDI player would no longer work for me. My setup is identical to when I was using the Homebrew version, and I had playback working with both SimpleSynth and Qsynth. With the standalone Mac app, though, when I click "Refresh MIDI ports" in MIDI settings with Qsynth running, nothing shows up in the "Player output" dropdown menu like it used to for me. At the top, it says "There are no MIDI output ports available on your system. Make sure PortMIDI is installed..."

Well, PortMIDI was installed via Homebrew, but I don't think the standalone app is seeing it. I looked in the Frameworks folder inside the Frescobaldi app bundle, but I did not see anything for PortMIDI there. Was this a packaging oversight or something else?

If I switch back to using the Homebrew version, MIDI playback works fine, but no Music View... In other words, I can either see the music or hear it, but not both.


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Re: [Frescobaldi] Re: Mac testers needed for Frescobaldi!

Davide Liessi-2
2014-05-10 16:49 GMT+02:00  <[hidden email]>:
> I had been using Frescobaldi successfully on OS X 10.9.2, installed via
> Homebrew. Everything was working well. A few days ago, the Music View (PDF
> viewer) stopped working, showing "Unable to load popplerqt4 module". I don't
> know what broke this. I recently installed a Canon Printer Driver system
> update from Apple, but other than that, I haven't done anything to my
> system.
>
> I tried uninstalling and reinstalling via Homebrew without success. Well,
> the install completed successfully, but still no Music View.

Did you uninstall and reinstall only Frescobaldi?
You should try to uninstall Frescobaldi, Poppler and Qt and then
reinstall Frescobaldi: this solved the problem for a user (see the
messages of April 3 in this thread in the mailing list of Frescobaldi:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/frescobaldi/hXK3qS-_jsw).
Anyway, I'm not a Homebrew expert: you should ask Marnen about this
problem (I'll put him in cc: in this message).

> Next, I downloaded the DMG containing the standalone Mac app to see if that
> would work better for me. Sure enough, the Music View reappeared in all its
> glory. But I noticed that the MIDI player would no longer work for me. My
> setup is identical to when I was using the Homebrew version, and I had
> playback working with both SimpleSynth and Qsynth. With the standalone Mac
> app, though, when I click "Refresh MIDI ports" in MIDI settings with Qsynth
> running, nothing shows up in the "Player output" dropdown menu like it used
> to for me. At the top, it says "There are no MIDI output ports available on
> your system. Make sure PortMIDI is installed..."
>
> Well, PortMIDI was installed via Homebrew, but I don't think the standalone
> app is seeing it. I looked in the Frameworks folder inside the Frescobaldi
> app bundle, but I did not see anything for PortMIDI there. Was this a
> packaging oversight or something else?

A packaging oversight, indeed; thanks for reporting.
The behaviour is slightly different on my machine (PortMIDI installed
via MacPorts is recognized by the application bundle), but I confirm
that I didn't include PortMIDI in the bundle.
I'll take care of this as soon as possible.

Best wishes.
Davide

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Re: [Frescobaldi] Mac testers needed for Frescobaldi!

Jacques Menu Muzhic
Hello Davide,

I’ve installed 2.0.16 from the dmg, works fine.

One point would be nice to have : on Mac, Cmd-E copies the current selection to the find dialog, very handy since Cmd-F easily follows.

Do you thing we could have this in Fresco?

JM


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Re: [Frescobaldi] Re: Mac testers needed for Frescobaldi!

jeff235
In reply to this post by Davide Liessi-2

On Monday, May 12, 2014 12:44:14 AM UTC+2, Davide Liessi wrote:
2014-05-10 16:49 GMT+02:00  <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="0LDej-tAgxgJ" onmousedown="this.href='javascript:';return true;" onclick="this.href='javascript:';return true;">jef...@...>:

Did you uninstall and reinstall only Frescobaldi?
You should try to uninstall Frescobaldi, Poppler and Qt and then
reinstall Frescobaldi

I uninstalled and reinstalled all of those (and probably some others too), but to no avail. It remains a total mystery to me how or why the Music Viewer stopped working for me and why I can't fix it via Homebrew. (I only installed Homebrew in order to use Frescobaldi.)

In the end, though, this doesn't matter much since I will be using the standalone Mac app anyway. (This will really open it up to a lot more Mac users.)
 
A packaging oversight, indeed; thanks for reporting.
The behaviour is slightly different on my machine (PortMIDI installed
via MacPorts is recognized by the application bundle), but I confirm
that I didn't include PortMIDI in the bundle.
I'll take care of this as soon as possible.

Ah, that's great to hear! Looking forward to it. Thanks for your help.

--
Jeff
 

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Re: [Frescobaldi] Re: Mac testers needed for Frescobaldi!

marnen
On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 2:38 AM, Jeff Holland <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Monday, May 12, 2014 12:44:14 AM UTC+2, Davide Liessi wrote:
2014-05-10 16:49 GMT+02:00  <[hidden email]>:

Did you uninstall and reinstall only Frescobaldi?
You should try to uninstall Frescobaldi, Poppler and Qt and then
reinstall Frescobaldi

I uninstalled and reinstalled all of those (and probably some others too), but to no avail.

In what order did you uninstall and reinstall?  It's possible that some dependencies weren't met.
 
It remains a total mystery to me how or why the Music Viewer stopped working for me and why I can't fix it via Homebrew. (I only installed Homebrew in order to use Frescobaldi.)

Was this after a Mavericks upgrade?  Some things seem to have changed in Mavericks...

However, you should be able to fix this with a Homebrew reinstallation.
 

In the end, though, this doesn't matter much since I will be using the standalone Mac app anyway. (This will really open it up to a lot more Mac users.)

Hear, hear!  Is the standalone Mac app ready for real use yet?  I thought it wasn't.

Best,
--
Marnen Laibow-Koser
[hidden email]
http://www.marnen.org

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Re: [Frescobaldi] Mac testers needed for Frescobaldi!

Tim McNamara

On May 19, 2014, at 8:24 AM, Marnen Laibow-Koser <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hear, hear!  Is the standalone Mac app ready for real use yet?  I thought it wasn’t.

So far so good for me, I use it for all my Lilypond editing these days.  The only problem I have run into is that running convert-ly from within Frescobaldi doesn’t work, complaining about zlib not being available (despite it being present on my Mac and other applications being able to use it).  That may be something specific to my Mac and not to Frescobaldi.
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Re: [Frescobaldi] Re: Mac testers needed for Frescobaldi!

Davide Liessi-2
In reply to this post by marnen
2014-05-19 15:24 GMT+02:00 Marnen Laibow-Koser <[hidden email]>:
> Hear, hear!  Is the standalone Mac app ready for real use yet?  I thought it
> wasn't.

It is not, indeed.
The main problems are:
- PortMIDI is not included in the bundle, and even if it is included
(with the appropriate option of py2app) Frescobaldi cannot see the
MIDI ports provided by SimpleSynth or FluidSynth;
- it is currently impossible to use convert-ly from the application
bundle: the error I get is different from the one of Tim, and I don't
have a confirmed diagnosis yet, but I suspect that they both are due
to the wrong Python interpreter being invoked.

Actually, apart from these problems, the application bundle is quite usable.
I can't recommend it yet, but I really appreciate people testing it in
everyday use.

Best wishes.
Davide


[1] http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2014-05/msg00265.html

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Re: [Frescobaldi] Re: Mac testers needed for Frescobaldi!

jeff235

On Monday, May 19, 2014 6:50:31 PM UTC+2, Davide Liessi wrote:
The main problems are:
- PortMIDI is not included in the bundle, and even if it is included
(with the appropriate option of py2app) Frescobaldi cannot see the
MIDI ports provided by SimpleSynth or FluidSynth;

What about bundling, say, FluidSynth and the soundfont from MuseScore so that MIDI playback would work "out of the box" as it does in the Windows version of Frescobaldi?

For that matter, I also think the latest stable version of LilyPond itself should be included. For the majority of potential Frescobaldi users, getting comfortable with LilyPond is the biggest barrier to entry. It would be better if there were not additional barriers on top of that.


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Re: [Frescobaldi] Re: Mac testers needed for Frescobaldi!

marnen


On Tuesday, May 20, 2014, Jeff Holland <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Monday, May 19, 2014 6:50:31 PM UTC+2, Davide Liessi wrote:
The main problems are:
- PortMIDI is not included in the bundle, and even if it is included
(with the appropriate option of py2app) Frescobaldi cannot see the
MIDI ports provided by SimpleSynth or FluidSynth;

What about bundling, say, FluidSynth and the soundfont from MuseScore so that MIDI playback would work "out of the box" as it does in the Windows version of Frescobaldi?

Or just communicating with the QuickTime synthesizer directly?
 


For that matter, I also think the latest stable version of LilyPond itself should be included. For the majority of potential Frescobaldi users, getting comfortable with LilyPond is the biggest barrier to entry. It would be better if there were not additional barriers on top of that.

That may not be a bad idea.  But then how would you handle Lilypond upgrades? 
 


--
Marnen Laibow-Koser
[hidden email]
http://www.marnen.org

Sent from Gmail Mobile


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Re: [Frescobaldi] Re: Mac testers needed for Frescobaldi!

jeff235

On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 2:46:08 PM UTC+2, Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote:

Or just communicating with the QuickTime synthesizer directly?

Sure, whatever works. (I just thought the combination I mentioned sounded better.)
 
That may not be a bad idea.  But then how would you handle Lilypond upgrades? 

People could always install newer versions and add them in Preferences > LilyPond Preferences. Frescobaldi already handles multiple versions of LilyPond intelligently, which is helpful.


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Re: [Frescobaldi] Re: Mac testers needed for Frescobaldi!

Urs Liska
Am 20.05.2014 14:55, schrieb Jeff Holland:

>
> On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 2:46:08 PM UTC+2, Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote:
>
> Or just communicating with the QuickTime synthesizer directly?
>>
>
> Sure, whatever works. (I just thought the combination I mentioned sounded
> better.)
>
>
>> That may not be a bad idea.  But then how would you handle Lilypond
>> upgrades?
>>
>
> People could always install newer versions and add them in Preferences >
> LilyPond Preferences. Frescobaldi already handles multiple versions of
> LilyPond intelligently, which is helpful.
>

We already had the idea of letting Frescobaldi handle the LilyPond
installation in order to offer an easier entry path. On startup it would
try to determine if a working LilyPond is installed, and if not, offer
to download and install it. In the same line there could be a function
"look for LilyPond updates".
IIRC we postponed the idea until there is an end-user friendly way to
install Frescobaldi on Mac.

I think directly bundling LilyPond wouldn't be that good because it
definitely bloats the package even more, without being useful for
_every_ user.

Urs


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Re: [Frescobaldi] Re: Mac testers needed for Frescobaldi!

Paul Morris
In reply to this post by jeff235
jeff235 wrote
On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 2:46:08 PM UTC+2, Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote:

> Or just communicating with the QuickTime synthesizer directly?

Sure, whatever works. (I just thought the combination I mentioned sounded
better.)
 
+1, especially if MIDI playback that works "out-of-the-box" is just as easy (or easier?) to do than getting Frescobaldi to see the MIDI ports provided by SimpleSynth or FluidSynth (the current problem).

jeff235 wrote
> That may not be a bad idea.  But then how would you handle Lilypond
> upgrades?

People could always install newer versions and add them in Preferences >
LilyPond Preferences. Frescobaldi already handles multiple versions of
LilyPond intelligently, which is helpful.
Yes, and also wouldn't it work to just include a new stable release of LilyPond in a new release of Frescobaldi?  At least for those who are using the stable releases.  

Or I just saw Urs' message with a different idea...

At any rate this could be a future addition (in one way or another) after the initial "1.0" release of the mac app bundle.

-Paul
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Re: [Frescobaldi] Re: Mac testers needed for Frescobaldi!

Federico Bruni
In reply to this post by Urs Liska
2014-05-20 15:03 GMT+02:00 Urs Liska <[hidden email]>:
We already had the idea of letting Frescobaldi handle the LilyPond installation in order to offer an easier entry path. On startup it would try to determine if a working LilyPond is installed, and if not, offer to download and install it. In the same line there could be a function "look for LilyPond updates".
IIRC we postponed the idea until there is an end-user friendly way to install Frescobaldi on Mac.

I think that this is about the proposal to suggest more strongly Frescobaldi on lilypond.org:
http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=3716


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Re: [Frescobaldi] Re: Mac testers needed for Frescobaldi!

Davide Liessi-2
In reply to this post by Urs Liska
2014-05-20 15:03 GMT+02:00 Urs Liska <[hidden email]>:
> I think directly bundling LilyPond wouldn't be that good because it
> definitely bloats the package even more, without being useful for _every_
> user.

I agree.

I believe that the best solution will be to keep the installers
separated and implement
https://github.com/wbsoft/frescobaldi/issues/313.

Best wishes.
Davide

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Re: [Frescobaldi] Re: Mac testers needed for Frescobaldi!

Davide Liessi-2
In reply to this post by marnen
2014-05-20 14:46 GMT+02:00 Marnen Laibow-Koser <[hidden email]>:
> On Tuesday, May 20, 2014, Jeff Holland <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Monday, May 19, 2014 6:50:31 PM UTC+2, Davide Liessi wrote:
>>>
>>> The main problems are:
>>> - PortMIDI is not included in the bundle, and even if it is included
>>> (with the appropriate option of py2app) Frescobaldi cannot see the
>>> MIDI ports provided by SimpleSynth or FluidSynth;

I did not say that it is impossible to bundle a working PortMIDI with
Frescobaldi: I just haven't been able yet because it does not work in
the most obvious way.

>> What about bundling, say, FluidSynth and the soundfont from MuseScore so
>> that MIDI playback would work "out of the box" as it does in the Windows
>> version of Frescobaldi?

This would require a working PortMIDI anyway.

> Or just communicating with the QuickTime synthesizer directly?

Being able to use QuickTime as MIDI synthesizer would be good: I still
would prefer FluidSynth, but QuickTime support would avoid depending
on external software and would give working MIDI playback out of the
box.
But I believe that this also would require PortMIDI.

Before implementing new Mac-specific features in Frescobaldi, I would
like to solve the current problems of the bundle (PortMIDI and
convert-ly) and be able to publish an official Frescobaldi application
bundle with the next release.

Best wishes.
Davide

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Re: [Frescobaldi] Re: Mac testers needed for Frescobaldi!

jeff235

On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 4:19:34 PM UTC+2, Davide Liessi wrote:
I did not say that it is impossible to bundle a working PortMIDI with
Frescobaldi

I know. My suggestions were only a related tangent. Your current predicament got me thinking is all. I didn't mean to add any distractions from the task at hand.


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Re: Mac testers needed for Frescobaldi!

Sarah k Alawami
In reply to this post by Davide Liessi-2
Ok for all, here is my initial testing of said app. I wrote up a very rough usability document that expresses my concirns with the app. It can be found at the following link.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/no0qvaxxalnf1m4/usability%20document%20for%20frescobauldi.pdf

I hope this helps a bit. Should you have any questions feel free to contact me. I can't promisje to know all the answers but I can try. Be blessed to all.


On Apr 22, 2014, at 3:42 AM, Davide Liessi <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear Frescobaldi&LilyPond&Mac users,
> as some of you may know, I'm trying to make Frescobaldi more
> Mac-friendly, by packaging it as a native application bundle inside a
> standard DMG disk image.
>
> I would be very grateful if you could test the experimental
> application bundle I prepared and report the results and your version
> of Mac OS X, especially if you are running 10.7 (Lion) or higher. [1]
>
> You can find a DMG disk image containing the application bundle at
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/o4o65629jv9ytw4/Frescobaldi-2.0.16-dev-20140421.dmg
>
> The test should be harmless: the only collateral effect is that any
> change you'll make to the settings inside this application bundle will
> be picked up by your usual installation of Frescobaldi, since they'll
> share the same preferences file. [2]
>
> Anyway, please be aware that this application bundle is considered
> experimental and is built from a development version of Frescobaldi,
> so it isn't suitable for everyday use: after the tests I advise you to
> delete the application bundle and wait for the next release. [3]
>
> Best wishes.
> Davide
>
>
> [1] My machine runs 10.6 (Snow Leopard) and I currently have only
> occasional access to a 10.8 (Mountain Lion) machine.
>
> [2] Actually, if your usual version of Frescobaldi is older than
> October 2013, your settings will become inaccessible from that
> version, while they will still be accessible from versions of the
> program newer than that date.
> But if you're running such an old version, you should seriously
> consider updating to a newer one: Frescobaldi has improved a whole lot
> in the last months!
>
> [3] To avoid messing with your current setup (except for the settings
> changes) and forgetting to delete the application bundle after the
> test, you can run the application directly from the disk image,
> without copying it to the /Applications directory.
>
> _______________________________________________
> lilypond-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user


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Re: Mac testers needed for Frescobaldi!

Guy Stalnaker-2
In reply to this post by Davide Liessi-2
Davide,

Know I'm late to this party, but I cannot run this application. My 10.6.8 MacOSX (a *old* MacBook which cannot  be upgraded to a newer MacOSX version) tells me, for the application as you have compiled it: "You can’t open the application “Frescobaldi.app” because it’s not supported on this type of Mac."

Would love to use it even as a dev version since I've just hosed my Frescobaldi install doing a port update. Another user reported the same sip API version error I'm seeing. I'm trying to force a recompile now. If it doesn't work I'll post to the list what I'm seeing.

On Tuesday, April 22, 2014 5:42:26 AM UTC-5, Davide Liessi wrote:
[1] My machine runs 10.6 (Snow Leopard) and I currently have only
occasional access to a 10.8 (Mountain Lion) machine.


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