LilyPond logo?

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LilyPond logo?

Malte Meyn-3
Hi list,

I’m planning to publish an arrangement of Grieg’s Holberg Suite on
IMSLP. I experimented with a copyright \header field which contains not
only text but also the Creative Commons logo. Then I thought that the
tagline could have such an eye catcher too, but there seems to be no
LilyPond logo I could use (if so, I would look at the license before
using it of course).

So for testing I made the image you can find in the attached score. Of
course it isn’t very good, too many details etc. But wouldn’t it be nice
to have an official b/w vector graphic as a logo for LilyPond? Any opinions?

Malte

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Re: LilyPond logo?

Kieren MacMillan
Hi Malte,

wouldn’t it be nice to have an official b/w vector graphic as a logo for LilyPond? Any opinions?

I *love* this idea! Currently, the standard Colophon in all of my scores is

…but I would *love* to have a little Lilypond logo there!

Thanks!
Kieren.
________________________________

Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: [hidden email]


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Re: LilyPond logo?

Malte Meyn-3
In reply to this post by Malte Meyn-3


Am 03.08.2016 um 16:13 schrieb Malte Meyn:
> b/w vector graphic as a logo for LilyPond

This could also be part of the Feta font.
\markup \musicglyph #"logo.waterlily"

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Re: LilyPond logo?

Andrew Bernard
In reply to this post by Malte Meyn-3
Hi Malte,

The concept is fine I am sure, but the execution difficult, and acceptance problematical. Take for example the massive amount of work that went into, just by way of pertinent example, the Creative Commons logo:


Logo design is fraught with difficulty, and you will inevitably end up with something half the population does not like - visual matters are very personal (for example, I think the Creative Commons logo is appalling, could have been designed by a child, and does nothing for me to enhance the brand. But others think it is so wonderful they wear it on shirts and shave it into their hair. Just goes to illustrate my point.)
Andrew




On 4 August 2016 at 12:13:42 AM, Malte Meyn wrote:

 But wouldn’t it be nice
to have an official b/w vector graphic as a logo for LilyPond? Any opinions?


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Re: LilyPond logo?

Pierre-Luc Gauthier
2016-08-03 11:03 GMT-04:00 Andrew Bernard <[hidden email]>:
> The concept is fine I am sure, but the execution difficult, and acceptance
> problematical.

So as with most artistic and identity related questions. :-(

> Logo design is fraught with difficulty, and you will inevitably end up with
> something half the population does not like.

I agree,
but since there already *is* a logo,
wouldn't it be acceptable to "simply" make it a b/w vectorialised
version of it?

--
Pierre-Luc Gauthier

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Re: LilyPond logo?

Malte Meyn-3
Am 03.08.2016 um 18:07 schrieb Pierre-Luc Gauthier:
> 2016-08-03 11:03 GMT-04:00 Andrew Bernard <[hidden email]>:
>> The concept is fine I am sure, but the execution difficult, and acceptance
>> problematical.

I know it’s difficult but does that mean one cannot try?

>> Logo design is fraught with difficulty, and you will inevitably end up with
>> something half the population does not like.

I think that might be realistic but not problematic. If someone doesn’t
like the logo, they don’t have to use it; of course it would be nice to
have something that is at least acceptable for most people.

And this argument works also for the current logo (an image of a
waterlily flower, two leaves, and a score in the background): It’s a
nice picture, but I don’t like it as a logo because it cannot be used in
print (at least in small sizes).

> I agree,
> but since there already *is* a logo,
> wouldn't it be acceptable to "simply" make it a b/w vectorialised
> version of it?

That would be nice but I doubt one can make a convincing b/w version of
that. Even if you leave out the background it’s a very complex image.
And even if you manage to make a b/w version of that it’s not usable at
small sizes.

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Re: LilyPond logo?

Schneidy
Hi Malte, Hi All

Here's a first attempt to produce a vectorialised logo.
The file uses the new v2.19 markup path syntax.
I've reduced the number of colors so the image is a combination of 46 layers/colors.
Still, and as already pointed, the file is pretty heavy (649 ko/ca. 8400 lines) so I cannot send it through the list.
I'll send it anyway privately to Malte and Kieren who have shown interest for it but, of course, I'll send it to all of you on demand.
Comments are welcome.

Attached is a screen shot of the following test :

\version "2.19.46"
\include "logo.ily"

%% Syntax is \markup\logo #size
%% Test:
\markup\logo #5

If there are some interest, I'll try to draw an optional b/w logo

HTH.

Cheers,
Pierre


2016-08-03 18:27 GMT+02:00 Malte Meyn <[hidden email]>:
Am 03.08.2016 um 18:07 schrieb Pierre-Luc Gauthier:
2016-08-03 11:03 GMT-04:00 Andrew Bernard <[hidden email]>:
The concept is fine I am sure, but the execution difficult, and acceptance
problematical.

I know it’s difficult but does that mean one cannot try?

Logo design is fraught with difficulty, and you will inevitably end up with
something half the population does not like.

I think that might be realistic but not problematic. If someone doesn’t like the logo, they don’t have to use it; of course it would be nice to have something that is at least acceptable for most people.

And this argument works also for the current logo (an image of a waterlily flower, two leaves, and a score in the background): It’s a nice picture, but I don’t like it as a logo because it cannot be used in print (at least in small sizes).

I agree,
but since there already *is* a logo,
wouldn't it be acceptable to "simply" make it a b/w vectorialised
version of it?

That would be nice but I doubt one can make a convincing b/w version of that. Even if you leave out the background it’s a very complex image. And even if you manage to make a b/w version of that it’s not usable at small sizes.


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Re: LilyPond logo?

BB-3
If any logo, I prefer the b/w version! I never print music sheets with a colour printer.

Regards

Am 04.08.2016 um 13:17 schrieb Pierre Perol-Schneider:
Hi Malte, Hi All

Here's a first attempt to produce a vectorialised logo.
The file uses the new v2.19 markup path syntax.
I've reduced the number of colors so the image is a combination of 46 layers/colors.
Still, and as already pointed, the file is pretty heavy (649 ko/ca. 8400 lines) so I cannot send it through the list.
I'll send it anyway privately to Malte and Kieren who have shown interest for it but, of course, I'll send it to all of you on demand.
Comments are welcome.

Attached is a screen shot of the following test :

\version "2.19.46"
\include "logo.ily"

%% Syntax is \markup\logo #size
%% Test:
\markup\logo #5

If there are some interest, I'll try to draw an optional b/w logo

HTH.

Cheers,
Pierre


2016-08-03 18:27 GMT+02:00 Malte Meyn <[hidden email]>:
Am 03.08.2016 um 18:07 schrieb Pierre-Luc Gauthier:
2016-08-03 11:03 GMT-04:00 Andrew Bernard <[hidden email]>:
The concept is fine I am sure, but the execution difficult, and acceptance
problematical.

I know it’s difficult but does that mean one cannot try?

Logo design is fraught with difficulty, and you will inevitably end up with
something half the population does not like.

I think that might be realistic but not problematic. If someone doesn’t like the logo, they don’t have to use it; of course it would be nice to have something that is at least acceptable for most people.

And this argument works also for the current logo (an image of a waterlily flower, two leaves, and a score in the background): It’s a nice picture, but I don’t like it as a logo because it cannot be used in print (at least in small sizes).

I agree,
but since there already *is* a logo,
wouldn't it be acceptable to "simply" make it a b/w vectorialised
version of it?

That would be nice but I doubt one can make a convincing b/w version of that. Even if you leave out the background it’s a very complex image. And even if you manage to make a b/w version of that it’s not usable at small sizes.


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Re: LilyPond logo?

Schneidy
Here's a gray scale version.
Lighter by far.

\version "2.19.46"
\include "logo-gray.ily"

%% Syntax is \markup\logoGray #size
%% Test:
\markup\logoGray #5

I've already tried an outlined b/w version but I'm not satisfied with it yet.

Cheers,
Pierre

2016-08-04 13:26 GMT+02:00 bb <[hidden email]>:
If any logo, I prefer the b/w version! I never print music sheets with a colour printer.

Regards


Am 04.08.2016 um 13:17 schrieb Pierre Perol-Schneider:
Hi Malte, Hi All

Here's a first attempt to produce a vectorialised logo.
The file uses the new v2.19 markup path syntax.
I've reduced the number of colors so the image is a combination of 46 layers/colors.
Still, and as already pointed, the file is pretty heavy (649 ko/ca. 8400 lines) so I cannot send it through the list.
I'll send it anyway privately to Malte and Kieren who have shown interest for it but, of course, I'll send it to all of you on demand.
Comments are welcome.

Attached is a screen shot of the following test :

\version "2.19.46"
\include "logo.ily"

%% Syntax is \markup\logo #size
%% Test:
\markup\logo #5

If there are some interest, I'll try to draw an optional b/w logo

HTH.

Cheers,
Pierre


2016-08-03 18:27 GMT+02:00 Malte Meyn <[hidden email]>:
Am 03.08.2016 um 18:07 schrieb Pierre-Luc Gauthier:
2016-08-03 11:03 GMT-04:00 Andrew Bernard <[hidden email]>:
The concept is fine I am sure, but the execution difficult, and acceptance
problematical.

I know it’s difficult but does that mean one cannot try?

Logo design is fraught with difficulty, and you will inevitably end up with
something half the population does not like.

I think that might be realistic but not problematic. If someone doesn’t like the logo, they don’t have to use it; of course it would be nice to have something that is at least acceptable for most people.

And this argument works also for the current logo (an image of a waterlily flower, two leaves, and a score in the background): It’s a nice picture, but I don’t like it as a logo because it cannot be used in print (at least in small sizes).

I agree,
but since there already *is* a logo,
wouldn't it be acceptable to "simply" make it a b/w vectorialised
version of it?

That would be nice but I doubt one can make a convincing b/w version of that. Even if you leave out the background it’s a very complex image. And even if you manage to make a b/w version of that it’s not usable at small sizes.


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Re: LilyPond logo?

Ralph Palmer
On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 8:31 AM, Pierre Perol-Schneider <[hidden email]> wrote:
Here's a gray scale version.
Lighter by far.

\version "2.19.46"
\include "logo-gray.ily"

%% Syntax is \markup\logoGray #size
%% Test:
\markup\logoGray #5

I've already tried an outlined b/w version but I'm not satisfied with it yet.

Cheers,
Pierre

Greetings, Pierre -

Could you please provide a .jpg, so those of us who are not running the latest unstable version can view it?

Thanks in advance,

Ralph


--
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Brattleboro, VT
USA
[hidden email]

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Re: LilyPond logo?

Andrew Bernard
In reply to this post by BB-3
There seems to be an assumption here that the logo _is_ the waterlily graphic on the webpage, and that it is just a matter of coding it up. I am not sure that this is the formal lilypond logo, is it? Has that been decided or discussed? In any case, does it convey the brand clearly and recognisably? What is a logo for? Does lilypond actually need visual branding? Are we trying to increase market share with a logo?

I’d suggest a dicussion before launching off and finalising this.

Colour is no good - pretty much everybody prints music in B&W, and musicians copy it on photocopiers in B&W. So if a logo is to be made, it would have to be B&W almost of necessity.

Since lilypond is GNU lilypond, does the GNU logo have to be incorporated? I think there are many questions.

Andrew


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Re: LilyPond logo?

Schneidy
In reply to this post by Ralph Palmer
Hi Ralph,
Here you go.



2016-08-04 14:40 GMT+02:00 Ralph Palmer <[hidden email]>:
On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 8:31 AM, Pierre Perol-Schneider <[hidden email]> wrote:
Here's a gray scale version.
Lighter by far.

\version "2.19.46"
\include "logo-gray.ily"

%% Syntax is \markup\logoGray #size
%% Test:
\markup\logoGray #5

I've already tried an outlined b/w version but I'm not satisfied with it yet.

Cheers,
Pierre

Greetings, Pierre -

Could you please provide a .jpg, so those of us who are not running the latest unstable version can view it?

Thanks in advance,

Ralph


--
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Brattleboro, VT
USA
[hidden email]


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Re: LilyPond logo?

Schneidy
In reply to this post by Andrew Bernard
Hi Andrew,

2016-08-04 15:10 GMT+02:00 Andrew Bernard <[hidden email]>:
There seems to be an assumption here that the logo _is_ the waterlily graphic on the webpage, and that it is just a matter of coding it up.
...
...


Colour is no good - pretty much everybody prints music in B&W, and musicians copy it on photocopiers in B&W. So if a logo is to be made, it would have to be B&W almost of necessity.
...
I clearly agree. My idea was just to start doing something.

Cheers,
Pierre

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Re: LilyPond logo?

Carl Sorensen-3
In reply to this post by Andrew Bernard


On 8/4/16 7:10 AM, "Andrew Bernard" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>There seems to be an assumption here that the logo _is_ the waterlily
>graphic on the webpage, and that it is just a matter of coding it up. I
>am not sure that this is the formal lilypond logo, is it? Has that been
>decided or discussed? In any case, does it convey the brand clearly and
>recognisably? What is a logo for? Does lilypond actually need visual
>branding? Are we trying to increase market share with a logo?

It's pretty clear to me that the waterlily graphic is *not* a logo; it's a
web graphic.  I like it on the website.  But it doesn't have the right
characteristics for a logo.

>Colour is no good - pretty much everybody prints music in B&W, and
>musicians copy it on photocopiers in B&W. So if a logo is to be made, it
>would have to be B&W almost of necessity.

Yes, and not gray scale either.  Just black and white.

>
>Since lilypond is GNU lilypond, does the GNU logo have to be
>incorporated? I think there are many questions.

The GNU logo does not have to be incorporated.  See, for example the GIMP
logo.  http://www.gimp.org/

I agree that if we want to have a logo available on the colophon, we
should create a real logo.  And this will require some work and discussion.

Thanks,

Carl


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Re: LilyPond logo?

BB-3
In reply to this post by Schneidy
I appreciated the b/w line version more.

Regards

Am 04.08.2016 um 15:59 schrieb Pierre Perol-Schneider:
Hi Ralph,
Here you go.



2016-08-04 14:40 GMT+02:00 Ralph Palmer <[hidden email]>:
On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 8:31 AM, Pierre Perol-Schneider <[hidden email]> wrote:
Here's a gray scale version.
Lighter by far.

\version "2.19.46"
\include "logo-gray.ily"

%% Syntax is \markup\logoGray #size
%% Test:
\markup\logoGray #5

I've already tried an outlined b/w version but I'm not satisfied with it yet.

Cheers,
Pierre

Greetings, Pierre -

Could you please provide a .jpg, so those of us who are not running the latest unstable version can view it?

Thanks in advance,

Ralph


--
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Brattleboro, VT
USA
[hidden email]



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Re: LilyPond logo?

tyronicus
The vectorized image looks very good. It'd be nice, though, to have some sort
of "icon" logo in true black and white. Maybe something like the attached?
It's an Inkscape svg if anyone wants to mess with it.

lp.png
lp.svg
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Re: LilyPond logo?

antlists
On 05/08/16 05:15, tyronicus wrote:
> The vectorized image looks very good. It'd be nice, though, to have some sort
> of "icon" logo in true black and white. Maybe something like the attached?
> It's an Inkscape svg if anyone wants to mess with it.
>
> lp.png <http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/file/n193438/lp.png>  
> lp.svg <http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/file/n193438/lp.svg>  

Ouch! Sorry, my reaction is "Pacman!"

It would be better in outline.

Cheers,
Wol

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Re: LilyPond logo?

Malte Meyn-3
In reply to this post by Carl Sorensen-3


Am 04.08.2016 um 16:43 schrieb Carl Sorensen:
> On 8/4/16 7:10 AM, "Andrew Bernard" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Does lilypond actually need visual
>> branding? Are we trying to increase market share with a logo?

I think it would be nice to have. As I said in my first post, an eye
catcher would be nice. This idea came to me because the tagline isn’t
very visible on full pages.

> It's pretty clear to me that the waterlily graphic is *not* a logo; it's a
> web graphic.  I like it on the website.  But it doesn't have the right
> characteristics for a logo.

I agree on this.

> Yes, and not gray scale either.  Just black and white.

And on that. (This has also the advantage that you can use it in
different colors if you want.)

> I agree that if we want to have a logo available on the colophon, we
> should create a real logo.  And this will require some work and discussion.

Some questions to discuss:

1. Do we want text in the logo? Or only a graphic (probably a
waterlily)? Or a graphic with optional text?
2. If so, which font to use?
3. Should the image be realistic or stylised?
4. Should one be able to invert it (white/light on black/dark
background)? If it’s a waterlily with white/light petals maybe this
would need an extra version.
5. Who would design the logo? A small designated team (maybe some
professionals in the lilypond community) or everyone interested?
6. If the latter, how to choose from different proposed logos?

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Re: LilyPond logo?

Malte Meyn-3
In reply to this post by antlists


Am 05.08.2016 um 10:28 schrieb Wols Lists:

> On 05/08/16 05:15, tyronicus wrote:
>> The vectorized image looks very good. It'd be nice, though, to have some sort
>> of "icon" logo in true black and white. Maybe something like the attached?
>> It's an Inkscape svg if anyone wants to mess with it.
>>
>> lp.png <http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/file/n193438/lp.png>
>> lp.svg <http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/file/n193438/lp.svg>
>
> Ouch! Sorry, my reaction is "Pacman!"
>
> It would be better in outline.
Are you sure? My first try was with outlined leafs but the contrast
“white petals vs. black leaf” looks much more convincing IMO.

Here are some experiments of mine. logo1.svg is the one I used in the
score, logo_outline.svg is the outline version, logo2/3/4.svg are some
attempts to make it simpler.

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Re: LilyPond logo?

Werner LEMBERG

> Here are some experiments of mine.

Very nice!

> logo1.svg is the one I used in the score, logo_outline.svg is the
> outline version, logo2/3/4.svg are some attempts to make it simpler.

I like logo3 most.


    Werner

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