LilyDev - some questions

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LilyDev - some questions

Peter Teeson-3
My gear: Mac Pro Desktop, Yosemite 10.10.5, VBox 5.2.10 + Guest Additions and LilyDev VM setup and runnable.

I’m familiar with VBox and VM’s. Also marginally familiar with Linux (Debian via Raspbian ->Raspberry Pi 2B)
I am working with the Contributor’s Guide for LilyPond 2.19.81

My questions:
(1) The LilyDev vdi is on a partition on one of my HD’s. The HD has EFI.
      The LilyDev.box  is in my ~/VirtualBox VMs/LilyDev folder on the MacOS boot drive which has EFI
      EFI is enabled in the VM

      When booting the VM console shows a message saying boot failed EFI DVD/CDROM.
      Plus a bunch of other console messages which fly by too fast for me to capture.
     ( I don’t know where to look for the console log file)

      But booting continues OK to the point of being able to login dev.
     
      Should I care about the console messages?

(2) Hardware Clock in UTC time is checked in VM System Settings (as is EFI)
     On my host machine I use a 24 hour clock display. My local time is UTC – 4 (DST).
     So for example Toronto time is presently 16:07 and UTC is 20:07.
     But LilyDev shows 22:07 on the login screen.

    Sorry but I do not how to correct this. Should I care?

(3) I ran the Terminal and did ./setup.sh. It appears to have downloaded the needed got repo’s.
      Looking at that script it seems I do not need to exec lily-git.tcl? (actually lilypond-git I think)

(4) The main desktop screen shows a popup about 770 updates for dnfdragora-update.

      What does this mean and what am I rto doubt it?

TIA

respect

Peter
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Re: LilyDev - some questions

Federico Bruni-2
Hi Peter

I'll reply quickly now, but I'll come back in the next days as soon as
I have some time to do some testing.

Il giorno sab 5 mag 2018 alle 22:24, Peter Teeson
<"peter.teeson"@icloud.com> ha scritto:

> My gear: Mac Pro Desktop, Yosemite 10.10.5, VBox 5.2.10 + Guest
> Additions and LilyDev VM setup and runnable.
>
> I’m familiar with VBox and VM’s. Also marginally familiar with
> Linux (Debian via Raspbian ->Raspberry Pi 2B)
> I am working with the Contributor’s Guide for LilyPond 2.19.81
>
> My questions:
> (1) The LilyDev vdi is on a partition on one of my HD’s. The HD has
> EFI.
>       The LilyDev.box  is in my ~/VirtualBox VMs/LilyDev folder on
> the MacOS boot drive which has EFI
>       EFI is enabled in the VM
>
>       When booting the VM console shows a message saying boot failed
> EFI DVD/CDROM.
>       Plus a bunch of other console messages which fly by too fast
> for me to capture.
>      ( I don’t know where to look for the console log file)
>
>       But booting continues OK to the point of being able to login
> dev.
>
>       Should I care about the console messages?
>

Probably you can just ignore them.
See if this article can help you to locate the log file:
https://blogs.oracle.com/scoter/virtualbox-log-files-v2

I usually test these images on libvirt/GNOME Boxes. I think I got some
messages on boot but never cared to investigate...


> (2) Hardware Clock in UTC time is checked in VM System Settings (as
> is EFI)
>      On my host machine I use a 24 hour clock display. My local time
> is UTC – 4 (DST).
>      So for example Toronto time is presently 16:07 and UTC is 20:07.
>      But LilyDev shows 22:07 on the login screen.
>
>     Sorry but I do not how to correct this. Should I care?
>

Don't you have a date&time configuration in the system settings?
I'll have a look and see if I can improve this. The thing is that these
new LilyDev machines (compared to the old ones) come ready to be used,
without the hassle of a step-by-step installation (which on the other
hand would allow to configure the system as you like). It's a trade off.


> (3) I ran the Terminal and did ./setup.sh. It appears to have
> downloaded the needed got repo’s.
>       Looking at that script it seems I do not need to exec
> lily-git.tcl? (actually lilypond-git I think)
>

I must say I've never used lily-git so I never took it into account
when I created LilyDev images.
I must have a look at it.

Anyway, you can ignore lily-git and use regular git to start
contributing.


> (4) The main desktop screen shows a popup about 770 updates for
> dnfdragora-update.
>
>       What does this mean and what am I rto doubt it?
>

Wow, it's a lot! Fedora gets frequent updates even for current
releases... which make me think I should rather use Debian stable for
the virtual machine. There are pro and con in using either Debian or
Fedora at the moment.

You can upgrade or ignore it. It's up to you.
In general upgrading is recommended.

Thanks for your feedback
Federico


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Re: LilyDev - some questions

James Lowe-4
Hello


On 09/05/18 07:05, Federico Bruni wrote:

> Hi Peter
>
> I'll reply quickly now, but I'll come back in the next days as soon as
> I have some time to do some testing.
>
> Il giorno sab 5 mag 2018 alle 22:24, Peter Teeson
> <"peter.teeson"@icloud.com> ha scritto:
>
>
>> (3) I ran the Terminal and did ./setup.sh. It appears to have
>> downloaded the needed got repo’s.
>>       Looking at that script it seems I do not need to exec
>> lily-git.tcl? (actually lilypond-git I think)
>>
>
> I must say I've never used lily-git so I never took it into account
> when I created LilyDev images.
> I must have a look at it.
>
> Anyway, you can ignore lily-git and use regular git to start contributing.

Lily-git was for mortals like me to quickly create git-formatted patches
without having to learn how to run git CLI commands. I still use it
(because I am lazy) but it is basically a tcl wrapper for a bunch of git
commands. For users who have never used git before it does make the
ability to contribute patches much easier.

It also comes from a different repo.

lilypond-git (or $LILYPOND_GIT) is the generic term we use for wherever
the repo is installed.

James

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Re: LilyDev - some questions

Carl Sorensen-3
In reply to this post by Federico Bruni-2


On 5/9/18, 12:08 AM, "lilypond-devel on behalf of Federico Bruni" <lilypond-devel-bounces+c_sorensen=[hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]> wrote:
    Don't you have a date&time configuration in the system settings?
    I'll have a look and see if I can improve this. The thing is that these
    new LilyDev machines (compared to the old ones) come ready to be used,
    without the hassle of a step-by-step installation (which on the other
    hand would allow to configure the system as you like). It's a trade off.

Federico,

I really appreciate your work on maintaining and improving LilyDev.  It's SOOO much better to have LilyDev than to have to create my own installation from genric distro iso's.  You've really cut down the work required for me to get a usable development environment on my MacBook pro.
   
That being said, I don't find the latest versions of LilyDev to be an nice as previous versions.  I don't like the pre-configured setup.  I didn't want my user name to be dev.

I went back to LilyDev 4 and just installed updated Ghostscript and the URW fonts.  I'm happier that way.

I can't speak for others, but for me, I want LilyDev to solve all of the problems of which Unix distro I should use and which packages I should have installed.  But I want to do my own setup customization for users, time-zone, language, etc.

Also, it's a challenge to me that we keep moving Unix distros (Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora).  I've been really happy with Debian.  I'd like to avoid changing away from it if at all possible.

 Thanks,

Carl


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Re: LilyDev - some questions

Federico Bruni-2


Il giorno mer 9 mag 2018 alle 22:10, Carl Sorensen <[hidden email]>
ha scritto:

>
>
> On 5/9/18, 12:08 AM, "lilypond-devel on behalf of Federico Bruni"
> <lilypond-devel-bounces+c_sorensen=[hidden email] on behalf of
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>     Don't you have a date&time configuration in the system settings?
>     I'll have a look and see if I can improve this. The thing is that
> these
>     new LilyDev machines (compared to the old ones) come ready to be
> used,
>     without the hassle of a step-by-step installation (which on the
> other
>     hand would allow to configure the system as you like). It's a
> trade off.
>
> Federico,
>
> I really appreciate your work on maintaining and improving LilyDev.  
> It's SOOO much better to have LilyDev than to have to create my own
> installation from genric distro iso's.  You've really cut down the
> work required for me to get a usable development environment on my
> MacBook pro.
>
> That being said, I don't find the latest versions of LilyDev to be an
> nice as previous versions.  I don't like the pre-configured setup.  I
> didn't want my user name to be dev.
>
> I went back to LilyDev 4 and just installed updated Ghostscript and
> the URW fonts.  I'm happier that way.
>
> I can't speak for others, but for me, I want LilyDev to solve all of
> the problems of which Unix distro I should use and which packages I
> should have installed.  But I want to do my own setup customization
> for users, time-zone, language, etc.
>
> Also, it's a challenge to me that we keep moving Unix distros
> (Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora).  I've been really happy with Debian.  I'd
> like to avoid changing away from it if at all possible.
>

Hi Carl

Thanks for the feedback!

I started writing a draft of this reply two months ago but I didn't
send it as I hoped I had the time of addressing these issues. But
recently I've been busy with other LilyPond stuff.

Some quick comments:

- I'll create a Debian virtual machine, as most LilyPond developers are
used to Debian-based distros.
- I can restore the installation setup for the virtual machine. Not for
containers, but I may add some tips about configuring user, time-zone,
language, etc.
- Finally I'd like to figure out a way of running the containers also
in a Windows or Mac host machine. See this issue:
https://github.com/systemd/mkosi/issues/251

I'm not sure when, but sooner or later I'll do it.

Best
Federico




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Re: LilyDev - some questions

Dan Eble
On Jul 26, 2018, at 00:47, Federico Bruni <[hidden email]> wrote:
> - Finally I'd like to figure out a way of running the containers also in a Windows or Mac host machine. See this issue:
> https://github.com/systemd/mkosi/issues/251

Would xhyve further that goal?  (Virtualization software is not my forte.)
https://github.com/mist64/xhyve

Dan


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Re: LilyDev - some questions

Dan Eble
On Jul 26, 2018, at 22:15, Dan Eble <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Jul 26, 2018, at 00:47, Federico Bruni <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> - Finally I'd like to figure out a way of running the containers also in a Windows or Mac host machine. See this issue:
>> https://github.com/systemd/mkosi/issues/251
>
> Would xhyve further that goal?  (Virtualization software is not my forte.)
> https://github.com/mist64/xhyve <https://github.com/mist64/xhyve>

In answer to my own question: no, xhyve is just another way to run a VM on macOS.

I looked around for a way to run your containers as they are, but I didn’t find anything.  I tried to import lilydev-debian-0.2 into Docker, but I gave up when I found no /bin/bash to run in the container.

I believe I could have imported and used your full VM image, but I wasn’t very interested because it includes stuff I don’t really need (like a GUI).  Instead, after a small amount of work, and relying heavily on the list of packages in your mkosi.debian, I succeeded in creating a Docker image based on Ubuntu 16.04 and then using that to build lilypond, the regression tests, and the English language docs.

So far, I see some advantages of Docker over VirtualBox.  For one thing, the clock appears to stay in sync after the host sleeps and wakes.  I intend to use Docker for a while to see what happens.  If the kernel panics only half as often as under VirtualBox, I’ll be a happy man.

Dan

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Re: LilyDev - some questions

Jacques Menu Muzhic
Hello Dan,

I’ve been a heavy user of LilyDev 4 on my my Mac for years now. No doubt for me that the trouble-free VMWare Fusion is well worth its price for that.

JM

> Le 9 août 2018 à 06:52, Dan Eble <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
> On Jul 26, 2018, at 22:15, Dan Eble <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On Jul 26, 2018, at 00:47, Federico Bruni <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> - Finally I'd like to figure out a way of running the containers also in a Windows or Mac host machine. See this issue:
>>> https://github.com/systemd/mkosi/issues/251
>>
>> Would xhyve further that goal?  (Virtualization software is not my forte.)
>> https://github.com/mist64/xhyve <https://github.com/mist64/xhyve>
>
> In answer to my own question: no, xhyve is just another way to run a VM on macOS.
>
> I looked around for a way to run your containers as they are, but I didn’t find anything.  I tried to import lilydev-debian-0.2 into Docker, but I gave up when I found no /bin/bash to run in the container.
>
> I believe I could have imported and used your full VM image, but I wasn’t very interested because it includes stuff I don’t really need (like a GUI).  Instead, after a small amount of work, and relying heavily on the list of packages in your mkosi.debian, I succeeded in creating a Docker image based on Ubuntu 16.04 and then using that to build lilypond, the regression tests, and the English language docs.
>
> So far, I see some advantages of Docker over VirtualBox.  For one thing, the clock appears to stay in sync after the host sleeps and wakes.  I intend to use Docker for a while to see what happens.  If the kernel panics only half as often as under VirtualBox, I’ll be a happy man.
> —
> Dan
>
> _______________________________________________
> lilypond-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel


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Re: LilyDev - some questions

Federico Bruni-2
In reply to this post by Dan Eble


Il giorno gio 9 ago 2018 alle 6:52, Dan Eble <[hidden email]> ha
scritto:

> On Jul 26, 2018, at 22:15, Dan Eble <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On Jul 26, 2018, at 00:47, Federico Bruni <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> - Finally I'd like to figure out a way of running the containers
>>> also in a Windows or Mac host machine. See this issue:
>>> https://github.com/systemd/mkosi/issues/251
>>
>> Would xhyve further that goal?  (Virtualization software is not my
>> forte.)
>> https://github.com/mist64/xhyve
>
> In answer to my own question: no, xhyve is just another way to run a
> VM on macOS.
>
> I looked around for a way to run your containers as they are, but I
> didn’t find anything.  I tried to import lilydev-debian-0.2 into
> Docker, but I gave up when I found no /bin/bash to run in the
> container.
>
> I believe I could have imported and used your full VM image, but I
> wasn’t very interested because it includes stuff I don’t really
> need (like a GUI).  Instead, after a small amount of work, and
> relying heavily on the list of packages in your mkosi.debian, I
> succeeded in creating a Docker image based on Ubuntu 16.04 and then
> using that to build lilypond, the regression tests, and the English
> language docs.
>
> So far, I see some advantages of Docker over VirtualBox.  For one
> thing, the clock appears to stay in sync after the host sleeps and
> wakes.  I intend to use Docker for a while to see what happens.  If
> the kernel panics only half as often as under VirtualBox, I’ll be a
> happy man.
> —
>

Hi Dan

Trying Docker was on my TODO list... Can you send the Docker file?
I'd like to add it to LilyDev repository.

BTW, I'm thinking about merging the mkosi files of LilyDevOS repository
in the old LilyDev and delete LilyDevOS.
I think I'll organize the source tree per tool: debian-live
(discontinued), mkosi and docker (active). And then use a Makefile or
Meson to build what I want.




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Re: LilyDev - some questions

Dan Eble
On Aug 27, 2018, at 10:32, Federico Bruni <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Trying Docker was on my TODO list... Can you send the Docker file?
> I'd like to add it to LilyDev repository.

I’ve attached what I’m using now, with a little documentation.  You are welcome to add it to your LilyDev repository.  It is based on Ubuntu 18.04 with GCC 8 and takes Guile 1.6 from Ubuntu 16.04.  

There are the following TODOs, caveats, and observations.

GCC 8 spews warnings like a fire hose.

I know that the script to update snippets sourced from the LSR was not written with a read-only source directory in mind.  It might work as designed if the source directory were mounted with full access, but I haven’t tested it yet.  There is a chance it will still not work because the source and build directories are separate.

The time zone in the container is UTC.  It’s not a major problem, but local time would be more comfortable.

I would have liked to omit git, but test-related makefile targets run it.

I omitted the curl package because I saw no need for it.

I omitted the following font packages.  The build succeeded, but I don’t know if there’s more to be concerned about than that.

  • emacs-intl-fonts
  • xfonts-intl-arabic
  • xfonts-intl-asian
  • xfonts-intl-chinese
  • xfonts-intl-chinese-big
  • xfonts-intl-european
  • xfonts-intl-japanese
  • xfonts-intl-japanese-big
  • xfonts-intl-phonetic

I added the fonts-urw-base35 package.  I thought that that might fix the last remaining warning that configure produces, which is about OTF files, but it didn’t.  I haven’t educated myself enough to understand the situation.

Regards,

Dan



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Re: LilyDev - some questions

Dan Eble
On Aug 28, 2018, at 00:08, Dan Eble <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Ubuntu 18.04 with GCC 8 and takes Guile 1.6 from Ubuntu 16.04.  

Guile 1.8.

Dan


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Re: LilyDev - some questions

Federico Bruni-2
In reply to this post by Dan Eble


Il giorno mar 28 ago 2018 alle 6:08, Dan Eble <[hidden email]> ha
scritto:
> On Aug 27, 2018, at 10:32, Federico Bruni <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>  Trying Docker was on my TODO list... Can you send the Docker file?
>>  I'd like to add it to LilyDev repository.
>
> I’ve attached what I’m using now, with a little documentation.  
> You are welcome to add it to your LilyDev repository.  It is based on
> Ubuntu 18.04 with GCC 8 and takes Guile 1.6 from Ubuntu 16.04.
>

Thanks, I'll do it soon.


> There are the following TODOs, caveats, and observations.
>
> GCC 8 spews warnings like a fire hose.
>
> I know that the script to update snippets sourced from the LSR was
> not written with a read-only source directory in mind.  It might work
> as designed if the source directory were mounted with full access,
> but I haven’t tested it yet.  There is a chance it will still not
> work because the source and build directories are separate.
>
> The time zone in the container is UTC.  It’s not a major problem,
> but local time would be more comfortable.
>
> I would have liked to omit git, but test-related makefile targets run
> it.
>
> I omitted the curl package because I saw no need for it.
>
> I omitted the following font packages.  The build succeeded, but I
> don’t know if there’s more to be concerned about than that.
>
>   • emacs-intl-fonts
>   • xfonts-intl-arabic
>   • xfonts-intl-asian
>   • xfonts-intl-chinese
>   • xfonts-intl-chinese-big
>   • xfonts-intl-european
>   • xfonts-intl-japanese
>   • xfonts-intl-japanese-big
>   • xfonts-intl-phonetic
>
> I added the fonts-urw-base35 package.  I thought that that might fix
> the last remaining warning that configure produces, which is about
> OTF files, but it didn’t.  I haven’t educated myself enough to
> understand the situation.
>

The reason is that the debian package does not include the OpenType
fonts.
Fedora package did not include them either initially but then the
maintainer added them, see the discussion here:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1496466

In Fedora:

$ ls /usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/*.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/C059-BdIta.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/C059-Bold.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/C059-Italic.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/C059-Roman.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/D050000L.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/NimbusMonoPS-BoldItalic.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/NimbusMonoPS-Bold.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/NimbusMonoPS-Italic.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/NimbusMonoPS-Regular.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/NimbusRoman-BoldItalic.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/NimbusRoman-Bold.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/NimbusRoman-Italic.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/NimbusRoman-Regular.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/NimbusSans-BoldItalic.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/NimbusSans-Bold.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/NimbusSans-Italic.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/NimbusSansNarrow-BoldOblique.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/NimbusSansNarrow-Bold.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/NimbusSansNarrow-Oblique.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/NimbusSansNarrow-Regular.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/NimbusSans-Regular.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/P052-BoldItalic.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/P052-Bold.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/P052-Italic.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/P052-Roman.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/URWBookman-DemiItalic.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/URWBookman-Demi.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/URWBookman-LightItalic.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/URWBookman-Light.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/URWGothic-BookOblique.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/URWGothic-Book.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/URWGothic-DemiOblique.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/URWGothic-Demi.otf
/usr/share/fonts/urw-base35/Z003-MediumItalic.otf




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