Getting a new computer

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Getting a new computer

Vaughan McAlley
Greetings,

My 2008 iMac is reaching the end of its useful life, and I would like to replace it with some kind of desktop computer that runs Debian. Given that a significant proportion of my time on this new computer will be compiling Lilypond files, I was wondering which specs I should be prioritizing.

I’ve included a large project if anyone with a newish computer would like to test their compilation time. The main file is MDSM.ly. It takes my computer between 4 and 5 minutes to compile.

Cheers,
Vaughan


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Re: Getting a new computer

Kieren MacMillan-2
Hi Vaughan,

By way of a benchmark/comparison: my mid-2011 iMac compiles your file in 59s.

Cheers,
Kieren.
________________________________

Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: [hidden email]


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RE: Getting a new computer

Andrew Bernard
In reply to this post by Vaughan McAlley

Hello Vaughan,

 

Well, that code does not compile and generates and error on 2.19.50, but it gets very close to the final PDF. On my new system with an i7-6700 it takes about 35 seconds, so I’d say of the order of 40 seconds.

 

I specified my new system that I built principally for lilypond, but also photographic work. Now, lilypond is single threaded and does not make use of multiple cores effectively, so there is no point going for a processor that has a huge number of cores – it simply has no benefit for lilypond. But do get the fastest CPU you can afford. The i7 6700 and the slightly higher spec’d i7 6800 or 6900 are excellent for this sort of work. They come with their own thermal solution so you don’t need to add expensive coolers.

Lilypond is not particularly disk IO bound, so a good fast 2TB disk nowadays is more than adequate.

Lilypond is also not very memory hungry, so you will be fine with 8GB of RAM, but maybe 16 GB is better nowadays.

Andrew

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Re: Getting a new computer

tyronicus
In reply to this post by Vaughan McAlley
On a laptop, but just for comparison, it took 44 seconds on an i5-5200U processor.

I have heard that cache size can make a difference if you are recompiling often. To check, I recompiled three more times and got 44 seconds each time. So my cache doesn't seem to make any difference (3MB).

Memory usage spiked by about 1.4 gb while compiling the file.
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Re: Getting a new computer

David Wright
In reply to this post by Andrew Bernard
On Thu 17 Nov 2016 at 13:51:51 (+1100), Andrew Bernard wrote:
> Well, that code does not compile and generates and error on 2.19.50, but it gets very close to the final PDF. On my new system with an i7-6700 it takes about 35 seconds, so I’d say of the order of 40 seconds.

The only errors I see are 2.18 constructions when run with 2.19.49.
OTOH I always see these warnings:
warning: cannot find property type-check for `extra-X-extent' (backend-type?).  perhaps a typing error?
warning: skipping assignment
Seven in all.

> I specified my new system that I built principally for lilypond, but also photographic work. Now, lilypond is single threaded and does not make use of multiple cores effectively, so there is no point going for a processor that has a huge number of cores – it simply has no benefit for lilypond. But do get the fastest CPU you can afford. The i7 6700 and the slightly higher spec’d i7 6800 or 6900 are excellent for this sort of work. They come with their own thermal solution so you don’t need to add expensive coolers.
>
> Lilypond is not particularly disk IO bound, so a good fast 2TB disk nowadays is more than adequate.
>
> Lilypond is also not very memory hungry, so you will be fine with 8GB of RAM, but maybe 16 GB is better nowadays.

Oh well, I'll just add my benchmarks:

real    3m13.656s
user    3m8.708s
sys     0m1.832s

2008-vintage Intel Core2 Duo processor, 1.20GHz, 2GB memory.

real    3m28.626s
user    3m26.885s
sys     0m1.532s

2006-vintage Intel Pentium 4 CPU 3.00GHz, 2GB memory.

Ages surmised from the BIOS dates. Time to cadge another computer methinks!

Cheers,
David.

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Re: Getting a new computer

Mark Knoop-4
In reply to this post by Vaughan McAlley
36 seconds on i5-2500 3.3GHz, 8GB RAM, LilyPond 2.19.49

At 13:24 on 17 Nov 2016, Vaughan McAlley wrote:

>Greetings,
>
>My 2008 iMac is reaching the end of its useful life, and I would like
>to replace it with some kind of desktop computer that runs Debian.
>Given that a significant proportion of my time on this new computer
>will be compiling Lilypond files, I was wondering which specs I should
>be prioritizing.
>
>I’ve included a large project if anyone with a newish computer would
>like to test their compilation time. The main file is MDSM.ly. It
>takes my computer between 4 and 5 minutes to compile.
>
>Cheers,
>Vaughan


--
Mark Knoop

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Re: Getting a new computer

Henning Hraban Ramm-3
In reply to this post by Vaughan McAlley
Thank you for this useful test project!
Also just for fun and comparison,
on my Mac mini (2.3 GHz i7, 16 GB RAM) running OSX 10.9.5 and LilyPond 2.18.2 it took 2:41, 2:30, or 4:47 min

Greetlings, Hraban


Am 2016-11-17 um 03:24 schrieb Vaughan McAlley <[hidden email]>:

> Greetings,
>
> My 2008 iMac is reaching the end of its useful life, and I would like to replace it with some kind of desktop computer that runs Debian. Given that a significant proportion of my time on this new computer will be compiling Lilypond files, I was wondering which specs I should be prioritizing.
>
> I’ve included a large project if anyone with a newish computer would like to test their compilation time. The main file is MDSM.ly. It takes my computer between 4 and 5 minutes to compile.
>
> Cheers,
> Vaughan
>
> <Carver.zip>_______________________________________________
> lilypond-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user


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Re: Getting a new computer

Jacques Peron
Compiled 3 times on my Clevo w110er (Intel Core i7 3632QM - 2.2 Ghz - Ram 8 Go - Ubuntu 16.04 - LilyPond 2.19.47) :

lilypond MSDM.ly  48,50s user 0,96s system 99% cpu 49,706 total
lilypond MSDM.ly  51,27s user 0,79s system 99% cpu 52,244 total
lilypond MSDM.ly  51,66s user 0,78s system 99% cpu 52,442 total

It replies 'Fatal error', but the resulting pdf looks fine.

2016-11-17 9:52 GMT+01:00 Henning Hraban Ramm <[hidden email]>:
Thank you for this useful test project!
Also just for fun and comparison,
on my Mac mini (2.3 GHz i7, 16 GB RAM) running OSX 10.9.5 and LilyPond 2.18.2 it took 2:41, 2:30, or 4:47 min

Greetlings, Hraban


Am 2016-11-17 um 03:24 schrieb Vaughan McAlley <[hidden email]>:

> Greetings,
>
> My 2008 iMac is reaching the end of its useful life, and I would like to replace it with some kind of desktop computer that runs Debian. Given that a significant proportion of my time on this new computer will be compiling Lilypond files, I was wondering which specs I should be prioritizing.
>
> I’ve included a large project if anyone with a newish computer would like to test their compilation time. The main file is MDSM.ly. It takes my computer between 4 and 5 minutes to compile.
>
> Cheers,
> Vaughan
>
> <Carver.zip>_______________________________________________
> lilypond-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user


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Re: Getting a new computer

Alexander Kobel-2
In reply to this post by Vaughan McAlley
Hi,

mid-2014 laptop: Lily 2.19.49 on a Dell Latitude E5440, Arch Linux
chroot running on Debian Jessie: 49 sec, 1.25 GB peak memory usage.
Wouldn't recommend this particular laptop, though, but just included it
so that you have a ballpark figure.

% inxi -Fxz
System:    Host: lap-11-52 Kernel: 4.4.30.1.pm64-smp x86_64 (64 bit gcc:
4.7.2) Desktop: i3 Distro: Arch Linux
Machine:   Device: laptop System: Dell product: Latitude E5440 v: 00
            Mobo: Dell model: 009TY8 v: A00 BIOS: Dell v: A14 date:
01/06/2016
Battery    BAT0: charge: 60.0 Wh 186.7% condition: 32.1/60.0 Wh (54%)
            model: LGC-LGC3.0 DELL NVWGM4B status: Full
CPU:       Dual core Intel Core i5-4310U (-HT-MCP-) cache: 3072 KB
            flags: (lm nx sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx) bmips:
10375
            clock speeds: max: 3000 MHz 1: 2613 MHz 2: 2600 MHz 3: 2602
MHz 4: 2620 MHz
Graphics:  Card-1: Intel Haswell-ULT Integrated Graphics Controller
bus-ID: 00:02.0
            Card-2: NVIDIA GF117M [GeForce 610M/710M/810M/820M / GT
620M/625M/630M/720M] bus-ID: 03:00.0
            Display Server: N/A driver: (unloaded: nv) Resolution: 272x90
Audio:     Card-1 Intel 8 Series HD Audio Controller driver:
snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 00:1b.0
            Card-2 Intel Haswell-ULT HD Audio Controller driver:
snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 00:03.0
            Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture v: k4.4.30.1.pm64-smp
Network:   Card-1: Intel Ethernet Connection I218-LM driver: e1000e
port: f080 bus-ID: 00:19.0
            IF: eth0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter>
            Card-2: Intel Wireless 7260 driver: iwlwifi bus-ID: 02:00.0
            IF: wlan0 state: down mac: <filter>
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 250.1GB (38.4% used)
            ID-1: /dev/sda model: Samsung_SSD_750 size: 250.1GB
Partition: ID-1: / size: 104G used: 82G (83%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda6
            ID-2: /tmp size: 44G used: 35G (83%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/root
            ID-3: swap-1 size: 9.44GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap dev:
/dev/sda7
RAID:      No RAID devices: /proc/mdstat, md_mod kernel module present
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 50.0C mobo: N/A
            Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: N/A
Info:      Processes: 235 Uptime: 33 min Memory: 2771.9/7892.9MB Init:
systemd Gcc sys: 6.2.1
            Client: Shell (zsh 5.2) inxi: 2.3.4


On 2016-11-17 03:24, Vaughan McAlley wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> My 2008 iMac is reaching the end of its useful life, and I would like to
> replace it with some kind of desktop computer that runs Debian. Given
> that a significant proportion of my time on this new computer will be
> compiling Lilypond files, I was wondering which specs I should be
> prioritizing.
>
> I’ve included a large project if anyone with a newish computer would
> like to test their compilation time. The main file is MDSM.ly. It takes
> my computer between 4 and 5 minutes to compile.
>
> Cheers,
> Vaughan
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> lilypond-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>


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Re: Getting a new computer

Orm Finnendahl-5
In reply to this post by Vaughan McAlley
Am Donnerstag, den 17. November 2016 um 13:24:24 Uhr (+1100) schrieb Vaughan McAlley:
> Lilypond files, I was wondering which specs I should be prioritizing.

As lilypond is single-threaded, the number of cores is less important,
than CPU Freq and you should go for a lot of RAM (>= 16
GB).

Since I've been using them, I find fanless, passively cooled systems
with SSD Drives a must (completely silent!)

Here are the ones I'm using: http://www.deltatronic.de

Note that I'm not affiliated with the company, it's just an example!
There are probably more companies out there.

--
Orm

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Re: Getting a new computer

SoundsFromSound
In reply to this post by Vaughan McAlley
Vaughan McAlley wrote
Greetings,

My 2008 iMac is reaching the end of its useful life, and I would like to
replace it with some kind of desktop computer that runs Debian. Given that
a significant proportion of my time on this new computer will be compiling
Lilypond files, I was wondering which specs I should be prioritizing.

I’ve included a large project if anyone with a newish computer would like
to test their compilation time. The main file is MDSM.ly. It takes my
computer between 4 and 5 minutes to compile.

Cheers,
Vaughan

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Carver.zip (81K) <http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/attachment/196736/0/Carver.zip>
Hi there,

On my 2010 Linux custom build machine it compiled on average between 60-70 seconds. I'm running an original core i7 860 from back in the day (ca. 2009), with 8GB ram. Great looking score!

Hope this helps you.

You should be all set with almost any machine these days, compared to what you have been used to...LilyPond is not as demanding on CPU/GPU as you may think she is... ;)


composer | sound designer | asmr artist
LilyPond video tutorials: http://bit.ly/LearnLilyPond
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Re: Getting a new computer

Knut Petersen
In reply to this post by Vaughan McAlley
Hi Vaughan!

> I’ve included a large project if anyone with a newish computer would like to test their compilation time. The main file is MDSM.ly. It takes my computer between 4 and 5 minutes to compile.

My system:
=========
    mainboard:  asus h97 pro gamer
    cpu: i7-4790K, 4.00 Ghz (turbo speed: up to 4.4 GHZ,)
    SSD: Samsung SSD 850 PRO 512GB
    os: Linux, based on openSuSE Tumbleweed
    For the test I used lilypond 2.18.2.

Compile times:
============
    1st run: 27,123 seconds
    2nd run: 26,697 seconds
    3rd run: 26,700 seconds
    4th run: 26,901 seconds


For lilypond single thread performance is critical ... the high turbo speed of the
i7-4790K helps a lot. An i7-6700K will probably be slightly slower,  a system
built around an i7-7700K will probably be slightly faster.

Put your system on a fast SSD. Nowadays there are SSDs faster than the one I use.

Use HGST hard disks.

cu,
  Knut


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Re: Getting a new computer

Michael Gerdau
In reply to this post by Vaughan McAlley
> I’ve included a large project if anyone with a newish computer would like
> to test their compilation time. The main file is MDSM.ly. It takes my
> computer between 4 and 5 minutes to compile.

I've tested your files on both my windows machine and the Linux box with
the broken font handling and both use about 54 seconds - the linux box
being had been bought in early 2011 though while the windows machine is
about 2 years old.

What is found is that lines like

  markup-system-spacing #'padding = #3

created an error in 2.19.50. Changing this and similar lines to

  markup-system-spacing.padding = #3

cured that problem.


I have then created a replacement statement to be added to a rule in
convertrules.py to deal with that as follows:

    str = re.sub (r"(\w+[-\w]*) +#'(\w+[-\w]*) +=", r"\1.\2 =", str)

I don't know which lilypond version did change that syntax and I also
have don't know how to add that to the official set of convert-ly
rules.

Any pointer appreciated.

Kind regards,
Michael
--
 Michael Gerdau       email: [hidden email]
 GPG-keys available on request or at public keyserver
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Re: Getting a new computer

David Kastrup
Michael Gerdau <[hidden email]> writes:

>> I’ve included a large project if anyone with a newish computer would like
>> to test their compilation time. The main file is MDSM.ly. It takes my
>> computer between 4 and 5 minutes to compile.
>
> I've tested your files on both my windows machine and the Linux box with
> the broken font handling and both use about 54 seconds - the linux box
> being had been bought in early 2011 though while the windows machine is
> about 2 years old.
>
> What is found is that lines like
>
>   markup-system-spacing #'padding = #3
>
> created an error in 2.19.50. Changing this and similar lines to
>
>   markup-system-spacing.padding = #3
>
> cured that problem.
>
>
> I have then created a replacement statement to be added to a rule in
> convertrules.py to deal with that as follows:
>
>     str = re.sub (r"(\w+[-\w]*) +#'(\w+[-\w]*) +=", r"\1.\2 =", str)
>
> I don't know which lilypond version did change that syntax and I also
> have don't know how to add that to the official set of convert-ly
> rules.
>
> Any pointer appreciated.

You could cherry-pick the later reverted

commit 7f34e80b8d8bebfa4b1f3721a12718b04d7e02f4
Author: David Kastrup <[hidden email]>
Date:   Sat Aug 16 23:24:21 2014 +0200

    Issue 4068: Add a convert-ly rule for xxx #'yyy #'zzz = -> xxx.yyy.zzz =
   
    Alist assignments can also use symbol list syntax as of issue 3748.
    So the examples for nested layout variable assignments should actually
    use those.

and start from there.  I think I considered this rule too sloppy to keep
it around permanently but then having nothing does not seem like a good
idea either.

So polishing this thing might be a good start.

--
David Kastrup

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Re: Getting a new computer

Karlin High 1
In reply to this post by Vaughan McAlley
On 11/16/2016 8:24 PM, Vaughan McAlley wrote:
> I’ve included a large project if anyone with a newish computer would
> like to test their compilation time. The main file is MDSM.ly. It
> takes my computer between 4 and 5 minutes to compile.

Thanks for sending that project! I find it very instructive to review
completed work by experienced users. My computer here is one I built in
July 2012 or so. I guess it's not exactly newish anymore, was nothing
extra high-end to begin with, and currently it should have a reformat
and re-install.

Intel DZ77SL-50K mainboard
Intel Core i5-3450 "Ivy Bridge" 3.10 GHz CPU
24 GB RAM
Windows 7 Pro SP1 64-bit
LilyPond 2.19.46, Frescobaldi 2.17.2.

MSDM.ly and its entourage compiled in 1 min 4 secs.

As others noted, a program like LilyPond only uses 1 CPU core. So fewer,
faster cores could quite possibly outperform a higher-end processor with
more, slower cores. In my case, with this project LilyPond promptly
sends CPU usage to 25% and stays there until finished - it's maxing out
1 of the i5's 4 cores. So have 6 or 8 or however-many more cores would
probably not help here.
--
Karlin High
Missouri, USA

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Re: Getting a new computer

Francisco Vila
Hi,
AMD FX-3600 here.

real    1m26.823s
cpu MHz         : 1400.000
bogomips        : 7032.75
--
Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain)
www.paconet.org , www.csmbadajoz.com

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Re: Getting a new computer

Thomas Scharkowski
In reply to this post by Vaughan McAlley
For comparison:

iMac 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, late 2013
macOS 10.12.1

LilyPond 2.19.50 (Files updated)

58"

Thomas


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Re: Getting a new computer

Thomas Scharkowski-2
-------- Original-Nachricht --------

> For comparison:
>
> iMac 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, late 2013
> macOS 10.12.1
>
> LilyPond 2.19.50 (Files updated)
>
> 58"
>
> Thomas
>
I compiled the file(s) on the same machine with VirtualBox Debian
Jessie: only 40 seconds!





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Re: Getting a new computer

Thomas Scharkowski
In reply to this post by Thomas Scharkowski
-------- Original-Nachricht --------

> For comparison:
>
> iMac 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, late 2013
> macOS 10.12.1
>
> LilyPond 2.19.50 (Files updated)
>
> 58"
>
> Thomas
>
I compiled the file(s) on the same machine with VirtualBox Debian
Jessie: only 40 seconds!





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Re: Getting a new computer

Knut Petersen
In reply to this post by Knut Petersen
Am 17.11.2016 um 16:19 schrieb Knut Petersen:
> Hi Vaughan!
>
>> I’ve included a large project if anyone with a newish computer would like to test their compilation time. The main file is MDSM.ly. It takes my computer between 4 and 5 minutes to compile.
>

I tried my old computer ... Pentium-M Dothan 1.86 GHz on an AOpen i915GMm-hfs mobo with 2 GB RAM.
One hardware update: OpenSuSE linux system installed on SSD, all the other parts are older than 11 years.
That old machine only needs  between 138 and 140 seconds!

The old machine takes about 5 times longer to compile your score than my fast PC, and more than 50% of that
is related to the increased system clock.

But: If I do a full build of lilypond, the old machine takes about 23 times as long as the modern computer ;-)

Some further comments: With some slight modifications you could compile Agnus, Credo, etc as individual scores
and combine the pdf using a program like pdftk. That reduced the time to build the pdf to a bit less than 8 seconds
on the modern hardware.

cu,
  Knut

> My system:
> =========
>    mainboard:  asus h97 pro gamer
>    cpu: i7-4790K, 4.00 Ghz (turbo speed: up to 4.4 GHZ,)
>    SSD: Samsung SSD 850 PRO 512GB
>    os: Linux, based on openSuSE Tumbleweed
>    For the test I used lilypond 2.18.2.
>
> Compile times:
> ============
>    1st run: 27,123 seconds
>    2nd run: 26,697 seconds
>    3rd run: 26,700 seconds
>    4th run: 26,901 seconds


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