GDP: rearrangement (third attempt)

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GDP: rearrangement (third attempt)

Graham Percival-2
Well, don't I feel like a complete newbie.  :/    Does anybody know how
to make Thunderbird treat text like pure bloody text, and not change the
displayed text when it sends an email out?  thanks in advance.  :(

I added the sectioning here:
http://lilypondwiki.tuxfamily.org/index.php?title=Doc

Please don't edit that page.  This is just because I'm apparently unable
to use my mail client.  :(

- Graham


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Re: GDP: rearrangement (third attempt)

Rune Zedeler
Graham Percival skrev:
> Well, don't I feel like a complete newbie.  :/    Does anybody know how
> to make Thunderbird treat text like pure bloody text, and not change the
> displayed text when it sends an email out?  thanks in advance.  :(

I don't know what you did wrong.
I just copypasted the below from your wiki-page (using thunderbird, yes):

    * 6 Basic musical notation
          o 6.1 Pitches
                + 6.1.1 Normal pitches
                + 6.1.2 Accidentals
                + 6.1.3 Cautionary accidentals
                + 6.1.4 Micro tones
                + 6.1.5 Note names in other languages
                + 6.1.6 Relative octaves
                + 6.1.7 Octave check
                + 6.1.8 Rests
                + 6.1.9 Skips
          o 6.2 Affecting multiple pitches
                + 6.2.1 Clef
                + 6.2.2 Key signature
                + 6.2.3 Transpose
                + 6.2.4 Instrument transpositions
                + 6.2.5 Ottava brackets
          o 6.3 Rhythms
                + 6.3.1 Durations
                + 6.3.2 Augmentation dots
                + 6.3.3 Tuplets
                + 6.3.4 Scaling durations
                + 6.3.5 Automatic note splitting
                + 6.3.6 Aligning to cadenzas
          o 6.4 Meter
                + 6.4.1 Time signature
                + 6.4.2 Partial measures
                + 6.4.3 Unmetered music
                + 6.4.4 Polymetric notation (alternating)
                + 6.4.5 Polymetric notation (simultaneous)
                + 6.4.6 Time administration
                + 6.4.7 Proportional notation (introduction)
                + 6.4.8 Automatic beams
                + 6.4.9 Manual beams
                + 6.4.10 Feathered beams
          o 6.5 Bars
                + 6.5.1 Bar check
                + 6.5.2 Barnumber check
                + 6.5.3 Multi measure rests
                + 6.5.4 Bar lines
                + 6.5.5 Bar numbers
                + 6.5.6 Rehearsal marks
          o 6.6 Polyphony
                + 6.6.1 Chords
                + 6.6.2 Stems
                + 6.6.3 Basic polyphony
                + 6.6.4 Explicitly instantiating voices
                + 6.6.5 Collision resolution
                + 6.6.6 Clusters
                + 6.6.7 Automatic part combining
                + 6.6.8 Writing music in parallel
    * 7 Decorating musical notation
          o 7.1 Connecting notes
                + 7.1.1 Ties
                + 7.1.2 Slurs
                + 7.1.3 Phrasing slurs
                + 7.1.4 Laissez vibrer ties
                + 7.1.5 Grace notes
                + 7.1.6 Analysis brackets
          o 7.2 Expressive marks
                + 7.2.1 Articulations
                + 7.2.2 Dynamics (absolute)
                + 7.2.3 Dynamics (crescendi)
                + 7.2.4 Breath marks
                + 7.2.5 Trills
                + 7.2.6 Glissando
                + 7.2.7 Arpeggio
                + 7.2.8 Falls and doits
          o 7.3 Staff notation
                + 7.3.1 System start delimiters
                + 7.3.2 Staff symbol
                + 7.3.3 Hiding staves
                + 7.3.4 Metronome marks
                + 7.3.5 Instrument names
                + 7.3.6 Quoting other voices
                + 7.3.7 Formatting cue notes
          o 7.4 Repeats
                + 7.4.1 Repeat types
                + 7.4.2 Repeat syntax
                + 7.4.3 Repeats and MIDI
                + 7.4.4 Manual repeat commands
                + 7.4.5 Tremolo repeats
                + 7.4.6 Tremolo subdivisions
                + 7.4.7 Measure repeats
          o 7.5 Educational use
                + 7.5.1 Balloon help
                + 7.5.2 Fingering instructions
                + 7.5.3 Blank music sheet
                + 7.5.4 Grid lines
                + 7.5.5 Shape note heads
                + 7.5.6 Easy Notation note heads
          o 7.6 Special use
                + 7.6.1 Special noteheads
                + 7.6.2 Improvisation
                + 7.6.3 Selecting notation font size
                + 7.6.4 Hidden notes
                + 7.6.5 Coloring objects
                + 7.6.6 Parentheses
    * 8 Instrument-specific notation
          o 8.1 Piano music
                + 8.1.1 Pedals
                + 8.1.2 Automatic staff changes
                + 8.1.3 Manual staff switches
                + 8.1.4 Staff switch lines
                + 8.1.5 Cross staff stems
          o 8.2 Chord names
                + 8.2.1 Introducing chord names
                + 8.2.2 Chords mode
                + 8.2.3 Printing chord names
                + 8.2.4 Figured bass
          o 8.3 Rhythmic music
                + 8.3.1 Showing melody rhythms
                + 8.3.2 Entering percussion
                + 8.3.3 Percussion staves
                + 8.3.4 Ghost notes
          o 8.4 Guitar
                + 8.4.1 String number indications
                + 8.4.2 Tablatures basic
                + 8.4.3 Non-guitar tablatures
                + 8.4.4 Banjo tablatures
                + 8.4.5 Fret diagrams
                + 8.4.6 Right hand fingerings
                + 8.4.7 Other guitar issues
          o 8.5 Bagpipe
                + 8.5.1 Bagpipe definitions
                + 8.5.2 Bagpipe example
          o 8.6 Bowed strings
                + 8.6.1 Artificial harmonics
          o 8.7 Ancient notation
                + 8.7.1 Ancient note heads
                + 8.7.2 Ancient accidentals
                + 8.7.3 Ancient rests
                + 8.7.4 Ancient clefs
                + 8.7.5 Ancient flags
                + 8.7.6 Ancient time signatures
                + 8.7.7 Ancient articulations
                + 8.7.8 Custodes
                + 8.7.9 Divisiones
                + 8.7.10 Ligatures
                      # 8.7.10.1 White mensural ligatures
                      # 8.7.10.2 Gregorian square neumes ligatures
                + 8.7.11 Gregorian Chant contexts
                + 8.7.12 Mensural contexts
                + 8.7.13 Musica ficta accidentals
    * 9 Text
          o 9.1 Text in a score
                + 9.1.1 Text scripts
                + 9.1.2 Text and line spanners
                + 9.1.3 Text spanners
                + 9.1.4 Text marks
          o 9.2 Text markup section
                + 9.2.1 Text markup
                + 9.2.2 Nested scores
                + 9.2.3 Page wrapping text
                + 9.2.4 Overview of text markup commands
                + 9.2.5 Overview of text markup list commands
                + 9.2.6 Font selection
                + 9.2.7 New dynamic marks
          o 9.3 Vocal music
                + 9.3.1 Setting simple songs
                + 9.3.2 Entering lyrics
                + 9.3.3 Aligning lyrics to a melody
                      # 9.3.3.1 Automatic syllable durations
                      # 9.3.3.2 Another way of entering lyrics
                      # 9.3.3.3 Assigning more than one syllable to a
                      # single note
                      # 9.3.3.4 More than one note on a single syllable
                      # 9.3.3.5 Extenders and hyphens
                + 9.3.4 Working with lyrics and identifiers
                + 9.3.5 Flexibility in placement
                      # 9.3.5.1 Lyrics to multiple notes of a melisma
                      # 9.3.5.2 Divisi lyrics
                      # 9.3.5.3 Switching the melody associated with a
                      # lyrics line
                      # 9.3.5.4 Lyrics independent of notes
                + 9.3.6 Spacing lyrics
                + 9.3.7 More about stanzas
                      # 9.3.7.1 Adding stanza numbers
                      # 9.3.7.2 Adding dynamics marks
                      # 9.3.7.3 Adding singer names
                      # 9.3.7.4 Printing stanzas at the end
                      # 9.3.7.5 Printing stanzas at the end in multiple
                      # columns
                + 9.3.8 Ambitus
                + 9.3.9 Other vocal issues
          o 9.4 Titles and headers
                + 9.4.1 Creating titles
                + 9.4.2 Custom titles
                + 9.4.3 Reference to page numbers
                + 9.4.4 Table of contents
    * 10 Input and output
          o 10.1 Input files
                + 10.1.1 File structure (introduction)
                + 10.1.2 File structure
                + 10.1.3 A single music expression
                + 10.1.4 Multiple scores in a book
                + 10.1.5 Extracting fragments of notation
                + 10.1.6 Including LilyPond files
                + 10.1.7 Different editions from one source
                + 10.1.8 Text encoding
          o 10.2 MIDI output
                + 10.2.1 Creating MIDI files
                + 10.2.2 MIDI block
                + 10.2.3 MIDI instrument names
          o 10.3 Displaying LilyPond notation
          o 10.4 Skipping corrected music
    * 11 Changing defaults

-Rune


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Re: GDP: rearrangement (third attempt)

Rune Zedeler
Very first I comment on the stuff I wrote below: When I wrote it I
didn't really notice / think about the fact the the first five sections
are left out. Probably some of my comments are not totally valid. Well,
I will think some more, and post another message about the overall
structure of the manual.

First a general comment.
I think it should be possible to read the manual from start to finish,
understanding the stuff that you encounter.
If understanding section B requires you to have read section A, this
means that section A should come before section B in the manual.
I think the old layout accomplished this relatively well. And the new
definitely does not.

>    * 6 Basic musical notation
>          o 6.1 Pitches
>                + 6.1.1 Normal pitches
>                + 6.1.2 Accidentals
>                + 6.1.3 Cautionary accidentals
>                + 6.1.4 Micro tones
>                + 6.1.5 Note names in other languages
>                + 6.1.6 Relative octaves
>                + 6.1.7 Octave check
>                + 6.1.8 Rests
>                + 6.1.9 Skips

Yep.

>          o 6.2 Affecting multiple pitches
>                + 6.2.1 Clef
>                + 6.2.2 Key signature

Hmm, neither clefs nor key signatures affect pitches. They only affect
how they are displayed.

>                + 6.2.3 Transpose

Well, yeah, transpose affects multiple pitches that is true.

>                + 6.2.4 Instrument transpositions

No, This subsection is very advanced (try reading it!) - I think it is
way too early in the manual.
I am not even sure, that I understand it properly.

>                + 6.2.5 Ottava brackets

No, again they do not affect pitches. They just affect how they are
displayed.

Summa summarum I only accepted the "Transpose" subsection in this
section - and hence really do not think that this section has any
purpose. And in all cases, it is way too early. The user has not even
learned what the "4" in "c4" means.

>          o 6.3 Rhythms
>                + 6.3.1 Durations
>                + 6.3.2 Augmentation dots
>                + 6.3.3 Tuplets
>                + 6.3.4 Scaling durations

Yep.

>                + 6.3.5 Automatic note splitting

This does not work before the "Bars" section.
I see no problem in simply moving this to there.

>                + 6.3.6 Aligning to cadenzas

I don't think that the user would be able to understand a single word of
this subsection at this time. Scheme functions. Staves, Grand staves.
And it has really nothing to do with rhythms.

>          o 6.4 Meter
>                + 6.4.1 Time signature
>                + 6.4.2 Partial measures
>                + 6.4.3 Unmetered music
>                + 6.4.4 Polymetric notation (alternating)
>                + 6.4.5 Polymetric notation (simultaneous)
>                + 6.4.6 Time administration

I like the "meter" title, though I think it is a bit early. Does it make
sence to have "simultainous polymetric notation" before "polyphony"? I
think not.
Also the "Time administration" subsection is very advanced.
The meter section is easy to handle because you can read and understand
the rest of the manual without ever reading this section. - You just
won't be able to use anything but 4/4 meter if you don't read it.
Therefore we could postpone it to a much later place.

>                + 6.4.7 Proportional notation (introduction)

No, this is too layout specific for this section. It has nothing to do
with the musical content, only with how it is displayed.

>                + 6.4.8 Automatic beams
>                + 6.4.9 Manual beams
>                + 6.4.10 Feathered beams

I don't think that beams belong in this section - they belong together
with phrasing slurs.
I liked the old "Connecting notes" section.

>          o 6.5 Bars
>                + 6.5.1 Bar check
>                + 6.5.2 Barnumber check
>                + 6.5.3 Multi measure rests
>                + 6.5.4 Bar lines
>                + 6.5.5 Bar numbers
>                + 6.5.6 Rehearsal marks

Fine.
Makes a lot of sense to put everything about bars together.


>          o 6.6 Polyphony
>                + 6.6.1 Chords

Yep.

>                + 6.6.2 Stems

Currently, this subsection has nothing to do with polyphony.
Furthermore it is layout specific, and should therefore be postponed.

>                + 6.6.3 Basic polyphony
>                + 6.6.4 Explicitly instantiating voices

ok.

>                + 6.6.5 Collision resolution

No, this should be postponed to some "tweaking" section. A "Polyphony"
section should not contain layout-specific subsections.

>                + 6.6.6 Clusters
>                + 6.6.7 Automatic part combining
>                + 6.6.8 Writing music in parallel

Yep.


>    * 7 Decorating musical notation

The way I always thought of the distinction between "basic" and
"advanced" notation is that the basic notation contained the parts that
lilypond understands the musical meaning of whereas the advanced
notation was the parts that lilypond does not know how to interpret
musically. I.e. if you do stuff that you have read about in the "basic"
section, the generated midi will (or at least should) reflect it; if you
do stuff in the "advanced" section, the midi will not reflect it.
I can see that this is not strictly correct, but this is the way I have
always thought about it and therefore I think that the distinction made
great sense.
I do not in the same way see the meaning in "decorating musical notation".

>          o 7.1 Connecting notes
>                + 7.1.1 Ties
>                + 7.1.2 Slurs
>                + 7.1.3 Phrasing slurs
>                + 7.1.4 Laissez vibrer ties
>                + 7.1.5 Grace notes
>                + 7.1.6 Analysis brackets

No. This is not decorating. It has musical meaning. c~c is not some
decoration of c c. It means something totally different.

>          o 7.2 Expressive marks
>                + 7.2.1 Articulations
>                + 7.2.2 Dynamics (absolute)
>                + 7.2.3 Dynamics (crescendi)
>                + 7.2.4 Breath marks
>                + 7.2.5 Trills
>                + 7.2.6 Glissando
>                + 7.2.7 Arpeggio
>                + 7.2.8 Falls and doits

Well, yeah, I guess.

>          o 7.3 Staff notation
>                + 7.3.1 System start delimiters
>                + 7.3.2 Staff symbol
>                + 7.3.3 Hiding staves
>                + 7.3.4 Metronome marks
>                + 7.3.5 Instrument names
>                + 7.3.6 Quoting other voices
>                + 7.3.7 Formatting cue notes

Ok, though I think that 7.3.1 belongs with staffgroups not with staves.

>          o 7.4 Repeats

No, repeats are not decorative.

>                + 7.4.1 Repeat types
>                + 7.4.2 Repeat syntax
>                + 7.4.3 Repeats and MIDI
>                + 7.4.4 Manual repeat commands
>                + 7.4.5 Tremolo repeats
>                + 7.4.6 Tremolo subdivisions
>                + 7.4.7 Measure repeats

Section looks fine just in the wrong chapter.

>          o 7.5 Educational use
>                + 7.5.1 Balloon help
>                + 7.5.2 Fingering instructions
>                + 7.5.3 Blank music sheet
>                + 7.5.4 Grid lines
>                + 7.5.5 Shape note heads
>                + 7.5.6 Easy Notation note heads
>          o 7.6 Special use
>                + 7.6.1 Special noteheads
>                + 7.6.2 Improvisation
>                + 7.6.3 Selecting notation font size
>                + 7.6.4 Hidden notes
>                + 7.6.5 Coloring objects
>                + 7.6.6 Parentheses

ok

>    * 8 Instrument-specific notation
>          o 8.1 Piano music
>                + 8.1.1 Pedals
>                + 8.1.2 Automatic staff changes
>                + 8.1.3 Manual staff switches
>                + 8.1.4 Staff switch lines
>                + 8.1.5 Cross staff stems

yep.

>          o 8.2 Chord names

How are chord names instrument-specific?

>                + 8.2.1 Introducing chord names
>                + 8.2.2 Chords mode
>                + 8.2.3 Printing chord names
>                + 8.2.4 Figured bass

ok.

>          o 8.3 Rhythmic music
>                + 8.3.1 Showing melody rhythms
>                + 8.3.2 Entering percussion
>                + 8.3.3 Percussion staves
>                + 8.3.4 Ghost notes
>          o 8.4 Guitar
>                + 8.4.1 String number indications
>                + 8.4.2 Tablatures basic
>                + 8.4.3 Non-guitar tablatures
>                + 8.4.4 Banjo tablatures
>                + 8.4.5 Fret diagrams
>                + 8.4.6 Right hand fingerings
>                + 8.4.7 Other guitar issues
>          o 8.5 Bagpipe
>                + 8.5.1 Bagpipe definitions
>                + 8.5.2 Bagpipe example

ok.

>          o 8.6 Bowed strings
>                + 8.6.1 Artificial harmonics

Well, isn't this also used in classical guitar? I am not sure, though.

>          o 8.7 Ancient notation

Hmm, not really instrument specific.

>                + 8.7.1 Ancient note heads
>                + 8.7.2 Ancient accidentals
>                + 8.7.3 Ancient rests
>                + 8.7.4 Ancient clefs
>                + 8.7.5 Ancient flags
>                + 8.7.6 Ancient time signatures
>                + 8.7.7 Ancient articulations
>                + 8.7.8 Custodes
>                + 8.7.9 Divisiones
>                + 8.7.10 Ligatures
>                      # 8.7.10.1 White mensural ligatures
>                      # 8.7.10.2 Gregorian square neumes ligatures
>                + 8.7.11 Gregorian Chant contexts
>                + 8.7.12 Mensural contexts
>                + 8.7.13 Musica ficta accidentals

>    * 9 Text

Hmm, text occurs in all parts of a note sheet. I think the manual should
be divided by musical content not by looks.
Having a text-chapter is a bit like having a "lines" chapter with
subsections "bar lines", "stems", "staves", "system start delimiter".

>          o 9.1 Text in a score
>                + 9.1.1 Text scripts
>                + 9.1.2 Text and line spanners
>                + 9.1.3 Text spanners
>                + 9.1.4 Text marks

This is definitely decorative. Put it in the decorative section now it's
there.

>          o 9.2 Text markup section

This would be a great candidate for its own chapter, imo.

>                + 9.2.1 Text markup
>                + 9.2.2 Nested scores
>                + 9.2.3 Page wrapping text
>                + 9.2.4 Overview of text markup commands
>                + 9.2.5 Overview of text markup list commands
>                + 9.2.6 Font selection
>                + 9.2.7 New dynamic marks

>          o 9.3 Vocal music

If we consider the human voice an instrument, then this is very
instrument specific. Move it to that section.

>                + 9.3.1 Setting simple songs
>                + 9.3.2 Entering lyrics
>                + 9.3.3 Aligning lyrics to a melody
>                      # 9.3.3.1 Automatic syllable durations
>                      # 9.3.3.2 Another way of entering lyrics
>                      # 9.3.3.3 Assigning more than one syllable to a
>                      # single note
>                      # 9.3.3.4 More than one note on a single syllable
>                      # 9.3.3.5 Extenders and hyphens
>                + 9.3.4 Working with lyrics and identifiers
>                + 9.3.5 Flexibility in placement
>                      # 9.3.5.1 Lyrics to multiple notes of a melisma
>                      # 9.3.5.2 Divisi lyrics
>                      # 9.3.5.3 Switching the melody associated with a
>                      # lyrics line
>                      # 9.3.5.4 Lyrics independent of notes
>                + 9.3.6 Spacing lyrics
>                + 9.3.7 More about stanzas
>                      # 9.3.7.1 Adding stanza numbers
>                      # 9.3.7.2 Adding dynamics marks
>                      # 9.3.7.3 Adding singer names
>                      # 9.3.7.4 Printing stanzas at the end
>                      # 9.3.7.5 Printing stanzas at the end in multiple
>                      # columns
>                + 9.3.8 Ambitus
>                + 9.3.9 Other vocal issues

>          o 9.4 Titles and headers

I would like a "Page layout" chaper, where this section should go.
Mentioning "multi scores in one files" would also fit nicely in there,
along with the discussion of the paper- and layout-blocks.

>                + 9.4.1 Creating titles
>                + 9.4.2 Custom titles
>                + 9.4.3 Reference to page numbers
>                + 9.4.4 Table of contents

>    * 10 Input and output
>          o 10.1 Input files
>                + 10.1.1 File structure (introduction)
>                + 10.1.2 File structure
>                + 10.1.3 A single music expression
>                + 10.1.4 Multiple scores in a book
>                + 10.1.5 Extracting fragments of notation
>                + 10.1.6 Including LilyPond files
>                + 10.1.7 Different editions from one source
>                + 10.1.8 Text encoding
>          o 10.2 MIDI output
>                + 10.2.1 Creating MIDI files
>                + 10.2.2 MIDI block
>                + 10.2.3 MIDI instrument names
>          o 10.3 Displaying LilyPond notation
>          o 10.4 Skipping corrected music

Ok.

>    * 11 Changing defaults

-Rune


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Re: GDP: rearrangement (third attempt)

Graham Percival-2
Rune Zedeler wrote:
> Very first I comment on the stuff I wrote below: When I wrote it I
> didn't really notice / think about the fact the the first five sections
> are left out. Probably some of my comments are not totally valid. Well,
> I will think some more, and post another message about the overall
> structure of the manual.

As I said earlier,

- the manual will be split even more into Learning Manual / Notation
  Reference.  This is the notation reference, so we assume that users
  have read the LM.  They know about music expressions, \override, etc.
  The LM will be increased to accomodate for this, but that's a separate
  discussion.


The division between Basic/Advanced was a somewhat artificial thing for
newbies reading the NR for the first time.  But the main use of the NR
is to be a *reference* -- ie knowledgeable users look stuff up in it.
So I don't think it's worth putting things in a weird order for just to
make it easier for new users -- the Learning Manual is the place for
them, and that document most definitely *can* and *should* be read from
start to finish.

>>                + 6.2.1 Clef
>>                + 6.2.2 Key signature
>
> Hmm, neither clefs nor key signatures affect pitches. They only affect
> how they are displayed.

Yes, true.  Rename section?

>>                + 6.2.4 Instrument transpositions
>
> No, This subsection is very advanced (try reading it!) - I think it is
> way too early in the manual.
> I am not even sure, that I understand it properly.

It makes sense to have this next to Transposition.  Making that
subsection easier to read is certainly a goal of later stages of GDP.

>>                + 6.2.5 Ottava brackets
>
> No, again they do not affect pitches. They just affect how they are
> displayed.
>
> Summa summarum I only accepted the "Transpose" subsection in this
> section - and hence really do not think that this section has any
> purpose.

Rename section?  Alternately, where should we move those subsections to?

> And in all cases, it is way too early. The user has not even
> learned what the "4" in "c4" means.

Tutorial.  If a user hasn't read the LM, they're on their own and I have
*no* sympathy for them.


>>                + 6.3.5 Automatic note splitting
>
> This does not work before the "Bars" section.
> I see no problem in simply moving this to there.

Could do... I'm certainly not opposed to this change, but I'll need a
bit more convincing.

>>                + 6.4.7 Proportional notation (introduction)
>
> No, this is too layout specific for this section. It has nothing to do
> with the musical content, only with how it is displayed.

Trevor already proposed deleting this entirely.

... my general concern with "it isn't musical content, only with how it
is displayed" is that most musicians don't make that distinction.  Most
people _would_ say that ottava changes pitches.

OTOH, we try to enforce this mentality in our discussion about key
signatures.  Hmm, what would think about

6.1 Pitches
6.2 Displaying pitches
(move Transpose into 6.1)
6.3 Rhythms
6.4 Displaying rhythms
6.5 Bars
(strictly speaking Bars would be a subset of Displaying rhythms, but I
think this section works well by itself, with bar numbers, multi-measure
rests, and the like all together)

>>                + 6.4.8 Automatic beams
>>                + 6.4.9 Manual beams
>>                + 6.4.10 Feathered beams
>
> I don't think that beams belong in this section - they belong together
> with phrasing slurs.

IMO, beaming is intricately bound up in meter.  I could be convinced
otherwise, though.  Anybody else have opinions about this?

>>                + 6.6.2 Stems
>
> Currently, this subsection has nothing to do with polyphony.
> Furthermore it is layout specific, and should therefore be postponed.

I have _always_ hated this section.  I remember trying -- and failing --
to find a home for it when I did my very first doc rearrangement, and
it's still a pain.

Help?  Anybody have a suggestion for where to move this to?  (or perhaps
delete entirely, and put info about \stemDown... where?)

>>                + 6.6.5 Collision resolution
>
> No, this should be postponed to some "tweaking" section. A "Polyphony"
> section should not contain layout-specific subsections.

Hmmm... would we have enough material to create a
Display polyphony
section?

>>    * 7 Decorating musical notation
>
> The way I always thought of the distinction between "basic" and
> "advanced" notation is that the basic notation contained the parts that
> lilypond understands the musical meaning of whereas the advanced
> notation was the parts that lilypond does not know how to interpret
> musically. I.e. if you do stuff that you have read about in the "basic"
> section, the generated midi will (or at least should) reflect it; if you
> do stuff in the "advanced" section, the midi will not reflect it.
> I can see that this is not strictly correct, but this is the way I have
> always thought about it and therefore I think that the distinction made
> great sense.
> I do not in the same way see the meaning in "decorating musical notation".

Actually, the new layout reflects this much more -- with the possible
exception of Dynamics, everything in "decorating" does not affect midi.

>>          o 7.1 Connecting notes
>>                + 7.1.1 Ties
>>                + 7.1.2 Slurs
>>                + 7.1.3 Phrasing slurs
>>                + 7.1.4 Laissez vibrer ties
>>                + 7.1.5 Grace notes
>>                + 7.1.6 Analysis brackets
>
> No. This is not decorating. It has musical meaning. c~c is not some
> decoration of c c. It means something totally different.

John didn't like the word "decorating" either, but I think it's fine.
Anybody want to suggest a new chapter name?

>>          o 8.6 Bowed strings
>>                + 8.6.1 Artificial harmonics
>
> Well, isn't this also used in classical guitar? I am not sure, though.

I used to get into arguments with a classical guitarist about what
artificial vs. harmonics meant.  He thought they were opposite to what
orchestral string players did, and I have no knowledge of guitar
terminology so I couldn't be certain that he was wrong about that
instrument.  To avoid these matters, I called it "artificial harmonics
(strings)"

>>          o 8.7 Ancient notation
>
> Hmm, not really instrument specific.

"Specific-purpose notation" ?
"Notation for limited use" ?

>>          o 9.1 Text in a score
>
> This is definitely decorative. Put it in the decorative section now it's
> there.
>
>>          o 9.2 Text markup section
>
> This would be a great candidate for its own chapter, imo.

IMO we should include 9.1 with 9.2.

>>          o 9.3 Vocal music
>
> If we consider the human voice an instrument, then this is very
> instrument specific. Move it to that section.

That's where it used to be, but singers complained.  :)

>>          o 9.4 Titles and headers
>
> I would like a "Page layout" chaper, where this section should go.
> Mentioning "multi scores in one files" would also fit nicely in there,
> along with the discussion of the paper- and layout-blocks.

I agree with this, but not very strongly yet.  John, Valentin?  You guys
wanted this in Text; feel like defending this position?  :)


Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: GDP: rearrangement (third attempt)

Mats Bengtsson-4


Graham Percival wrote:

>
>>>                + 6.6.2 Stems
>>
>> Currently, this subsection has nothing to do with polyphony.
>> Furthermore it is layout specific, and should therefore be postponed.
>
> I have _always_ hated this section.  I remember trying -- and failing
> -- to find a home for it when I did my very first doc rearrangement,
> and it's still a pain.
>
> Help?  Anybody have a suggestion for where to move this to?  (or
> perhaps delete entirely, and put info about \stemDown... where?)
How about some combined subsection on (ordinary) notes which deals with
both
note heads and stems? Currently, we don't have any specific subsection
on note
heads (though there are a few related to special notation). Any section
that
describes \xxxDown and \xxxUp macros should also refer to the section
that describes \voiceOne and \voiceTwo, since that's mostly a better
solution.
(Sorry, couldn't help leaving the structure and talking about content
for a moment).

    /Mats


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Re: GDP: rearrangement (third attempt)

John Mandereau-2
Le lundi 10 septembre 2007 à 14:37 +0200, Mats Bengtsson a écrit :

> Graham Percival wrote:
> >
> >>>                + 6.6.2 Stems
> >>
> >> Currently, this subsection has nothing to do with polyphony.
> >> Furthermore it is layout specific, and should therefore be postponed.
> >
> > I have _always_ hated this section.  I remember trying -- and failing
> > -- to find a home for it when I did my very first doc rearrangement,
> > and it's still a pain.
> >
> > Help?  Anybody have a suggestion for where to move this to?  (or
> > perhaps delete entirely, and put info about \stemDown... where?)
> How about some combined subsection on (ordinary) notes which deals with
> both
> note heads and stems? Currently, we don't have any specific subsection
> on note
> heads (though there are a few related to special notation). Any section
> that
> describes \xxxDown and \xxxUp macros should also refer to the section
> that describes \voiceOne and \voiceTwo, since that's mostly a better
> solution.
> (Sorry, couldn't help leaving the structure and talking about content
> for a moment).

Tu sum up your suggestion, which I like quite much, I propose the
following section (inside chapter 7 "Decorating musical notation", and
replacing "Special use"):

7.6 Note heads and stems
   7.6.1 Stems
   7.6.2 Special noteheads
   7.6.3 Improvisation
   7.6.4 Selecting notation font size
   7.6.5 Hidden notes
   7.6.6 Parentheses

My two cents: maybe "Parentheses" should be included in a (sub)section
in chapter 7, called "Editorial notation", which would also deal with
bracketed dynamics for example.  Then, I don't know where to move
"Coloring objects", what a pain!  What about including it as an example
subsection in "9.3 The \override command", with proper index entries,
and adding a "See also" link from the main page of chapter 7?

Cheers,
John



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Re: GDP: rearrangement (third attempt)

John Mandereau-2
In reply to this post by Graham Percival-2
Le lundi 10 septembre 2007 à 05:22 -0700, Graham Percival a écrit :

> Rune Zedeler wrote:
> > Very first I comment on the stuff I wrote below: When I wrote it I
> > didn't really notice / think about the fact the the first five sections
> > are left out. Probably some of my comments are not totally valid. Well,
> > I will think some more, and post another message about the overall
> > structure of the manual.
>
> As I said earlier,
>
> - the manual will be split even more into Learning Manual / Notation
>   Reference.  This is the notation reference, so we assume that users
>   have read the LM.  They know about music expressions, \override, etc.
>   The LM will be increased to accomodate for this, but that's a separate
>   discussion.
>
>
> The division between Basic/Advanced was a somewhat artificial thing for
> newbies reading the NR for the first time.  But the main use of the NR
> is to be a *reference* -- ie knowledgeable users look stuff up in it.
> So I don't think it's worth putting things in a weird order for just to
> make it easier for new users -- the Learning Manual is the place for
> them, and that document most definitely *can* and *should* be read from
> start to finish.

I totally agree with you on these points.




> >>                + 6.4.7 Proportional notation (introduction)
> >
> > No, this is too layout specific for this section. It has nothing to do
> > with the musical content, only with how it is displayed.
>
> Trevor already proposed deleting this entirely.

Shall I go ahead and remove this in master?  I'd add the LSR links in
the deleted subsec to "Proportional notation" in chapter "Spacing
issues".


> ... my general concern with "it isn't musical content, only with how it
> is displayed" is that most musicians don't make that distinction.  Most
> people _would_ say that ottava changes pitches.
>
> OTOH, we try to enforce this mentality in our discussion about key
> signatures.  Hmm, what would think about
>
> 6.1 Pitches
> 6.2 Displaying pitches
> (move Transpose into 6.1)
> 6.3 Rhythms
> 6.4 Displaying rhythms
> 6.5 Bars
> (strictly speaking Bars would be a subset of Displaying rhythms, but I
> think this section works well by itself, with bar numbers, multi-measure
> rests, and the like all together)

I really like these section names.  Let's adopt them!



> >>                + 6.4.8 Automatic beams
> >>                + 6.4.9 Manual beams
> >>                + 6.4.10 Feathered beams
> >
> > I don't think that beams belong in this section - they belong together
> > with phrasing slurs.
>
> IMO, beaming is intricately bound up in meter.  I could be convinced
> otherwise, though.  Anybody else have opinions about this?

No, I just second your opinion here too.



> >>          o 8.6 Bowed strings
> >>                + 8.6.1 Artificial harmonics
> >
> > Well, isn't this also used in classical guitar? I am not sure, though.
>
> I used to get into arguments with a classical guitarist about what
> artificial vs. harmonics meant.  He thought they were opposite to what
> orchestral string players did, and I have no knowledge of guitar
> terminology so I couldn't be certain that he was wrong about that
> instrument.  To avoid these matters, I called it "artificial harmonics
> (strings)"

I've played with a classical guitarist for one year, and in two pieces
we played there were artifical harmonics (or if you want to avoid
arguments let's call them just "harmonics").  I'm sure anybody who wants
to notate harmonics for the guitar will most probably get enough
inspiration to look for "harmonics" in the index or look for harmonics
in the section about strings.  That's why we can keep harmonics in the
strings section.


> >>          o 9.4 Titles and headers
> >
> > I would like a "Page layout" chaper, where this section should go.
> > Mentioning "multi scores in one files" would also fit nicely in there,
> > along with the discussion of the paper- and layout-blocks.
>
> I agree with this, but not very strongly yet.  John, Valentin?  You guys
> wanted this in Text; feel like defending this position?  :)

Yes.  After arguments brought in this discussion, I can propose (without
being fully convinced):

9 Text (or "Text and vocal music" or "Text and lyrics", I don't mind)
   9.1 Text in a score
   9.2 Text markup
   9.3 Vocal music

10 Input and output (like in Graham's first proposal)

11 Page layout (new chapter)
   11.1 Paper and pages (moved from Spacing issues)
   11.2 Titles and headers
   11.3 Breaks (moved from Spacing issues)

The problem is, this breaks the unity of Spacing stuff in a single
chapter, and if we do this, we must have a look at the subsections to be
moved (which I haven't done here in my naive proposal).

Without spacing stuff (can anything else be added to this chapter,
btw?), a chapter about page layout containing only "Titles and headers"
would be too small, so IMHO it's not a so good idea.  Rune, we welcome a
better and more precise proposal, though ;-)

Any comments on this?

Cheers,
John



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Re: GDP: rearrangement (third attempt)

Graham Percival-2
In reply to this post by John Mandereau-2
John Mandereau wrote:

> Tu sum up your suggestion, which I like quite much, I propose the
> following section (inside chapter 7 "Decorating musical notation", and
> replacing "Special use"):
>
> 7.6 Note heads and stems
>    7.6.1 Stems
>    7.6.2 Special noteheads
>    7.6.3 Improvisation
>    7.6.4 Selecting notation font size
>    7.6.5 Hidden notes
>    7.6.6 Parentheses

I still this this could be improved, but let's go with it for now (until
we've resolved the merging subsections)

If we move Stems out of 6.6 Polyphony, then we now have 6.6.6 Automatic
part combining.  Given the number of bug reports about that, I think
this is extremely fitting, so I approve of this suggestion.  :)

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: GDP: rearrangement

Till
In reply to this post by Rune Zedeler

Hello,

from what so far has been discussed I catched somewhat the need is to
group the issues more into "single topic" sections of subsections.
For the discussion about the format of the html-docu: I would rather
like to have whole subsections downloading than those tiny pages -- I
also get lost on them and always have to go at least three steps up
until I come again to the contents where I look for another promising
section's name. So actually for me also a link to the toc would be
sufficient, maybe also one to the index, to be on *every* page. I
personally dislike the system that for going from a subsection to the
next section demands climbing up one level -- I am probably too much
used to reading real books where this kind of strange behaviour doesn't
happen. But it might be a texinfo issue that we cannot incluence...
About rearranging: I would suggest breaking up chapters (with only one
number, like 6, 7, and so on) into smaller chapters in some cases, that
is being more specific on the lowest level. For instance I could imagine
a chapter "Ancient music", and one on educational subjects. At least I
don't see why Ancient is "instrument specific", so why not put it in 7
from the current suggestion, right after educational and special noteheads.
I didn't check the situation now but from the discussion about "aligning
cadenzas" -- I would look for cadenzas either in grace notes (being
something "additional") or at rhythmic issues. From there we could have
a link to a general chapter about aligning...
I am also somewhat unpleasant with the current "string" section in the
instrument specific chapter: I would like to see here all those
\bowdown, \bowup, \flageolet, \thumb and so on that are in
"articulations" so far -- or at least a link to them. Well, that's
already about contents, not only rearranging.
I like the "text"-section, that is a good idea. But going the same way
for other stuff as well... Name of chapter 7 should maybe be changed,
not everything is about "decoration", there are some really important
things. Would it be something like "polishing", "finishing" or the like?

Sorry for writing so confused, I hope it is still understandable. It's
mainly just some thoughts...

Greetings
Till

>
>    * 6 Basic musical notation
>          o 6.1 Pitches
>                + 6.1.1 Normal pitches
>                + 6.1.2 Accidentals
>                + 6.1.3 Cautionary accidentals
>                + 6.1.4 Micro tones
>                + 6.1.5 Note names in other languages
>                + 6.1.6 Relative octaves
>                + 6.1.7 Octave check
>                + 6.1.8 Rests
>                + 6.1.9 Skips
>          o 6.2 Affecting multiple pitches
>                + 6.2.1 Clef
>                + 6.2.2 Key signature
>                + 6.2.3 Transpose
>                + 6.2.4 Instrument transpositions
>                + 6.2.5 Ottava brackets
>          o 6.3 Rhythms
>                + 6.3.1 Durations
>                + 6.3.2 Augmentation dots
>                + 6.3.3 Tuplets
>                + 6.3.4 Scaling durations
>                + 6.3.5 Automatic note splitting
>                + 6.3.6 Aligning to cadenzas
>          o 6.4 Meter
>                + 6.4.1 Time signature
>                + 6.4.2 Partial measures
>                + 6.4.3 Unmetered music
>                + 6.4.4 Polymetric notation (alternating)
>                + 6.4.5 Polymetric notation (simultaneous)
>                + 6.4.6 Time administration
>                + 6.4.7 Proportional notation (introduction)
>                + 6.4.8 Automatic beams
>                + 6.4.9 Manual beams
>                + 6.4.10 Feathered beams
>          o 6.5 Bars
>                + 6.5.1 Bar check
>                + 6.5.2 Barnumber check
>                + 6.5.3 Multi measure rests
>                + 6.5.4 Bar lines
>                + 6.5.5 Bar numbers
>                + 6.5.6 Rehearsal marks
>          o 6.6 Polyphony
>                + 6.6.1 Chords
>                + 6.6.2 Stems
>                + 6.6.3 Basic polyphony
>                + 6.6.4 Explicitly instantiating voices
>                + 6.6.5 Collision resolution
>                + 6.6.6 Clusters
>                + 6.6.7 Automatic part combining
>                + 6.6.8 Writing music in parallel
>    * 7 Decorating musical notation
>          o 7.1 Connecting notes
>                + 7.1.1 Ties
>                + 7.1.2 Slurs
>                + 7.1.3 Phrasing slurs
>                + 7.1.4 Laissez vibrer ties
>                + 7.1.5 Grace notes
>                + 7.1.6 Analysis brackets
>          o 7.2 Expressive marks
>                + 7.2.1 Articulations
>                + 7.2.2 Dynamics (absolute)
>                + 7.2.3 Dynamics (crescendi)
>                + 7.2.4 Breath marks
>                + 7.2.5 Trills
>                + 7.2.6 Glissando
>                + 7.2.7 Arpeggio
>                + 7.2.8 Falls and doits
>          o 7.3 Staff notation
>                + 7.3.1 System start delimiters
>                + 7.3.2 Staff symbol
>                + 7.3.3 Hiding staves
>                + 7.3.4 Metronome marks
>                + 7.3.5 Instrument names
>                + 7.3.6 Quoting other voices
>                + 7.3.7 Formatting cue notes
>          o 7.4 Repeats
>                + 7.4.1 Repeat types
>                + 7.4.2 Repeat syntax
>                + 7.4.3 Repeats and MIDI
>                + 7.4.4 Manual repeat commands
>                + 7.4.5 Tremolo repeats
>                + 7.4.6 Tremolo subdivisions
>                + 7.4.7 Measure repeats
>          o 7.5 Educational use
>                + 7.5.1 Balloon help
>                + 7.5.2 Fingering instructions
>                + 7.5.3 Blank music sheet
>                + 7.5.4 Grid lines
>                + 7.5.5 Shape note heads
>                + 7.5.6 Easy Notation note heads
>          o 7.6 Special use
>                + 7.6.1 Special noteheads
>                + 7.6.2 Improvisation
>                + 7.6.3 Selecting notation font size
>                + 7.6.4 Hidden notes
>                + 7.6.5 Coloring objects
>                + 7.6.6 Parentheses
>    * 8 Instrument-specific notation
>          o 8.1 Piano music
>                + 8.1.1 Pedals
>                + 8.1.2 Automatic staff changes
>                + 8.1.3 Manual staff switches
>                + 8.1.4 Staff switch lines
>                + 8.1.5 Cross staff stems
>          o 8.2 Chord names
>                + 8.2.1 Introducing chord names
>                + 8.2.2 Chords mode
>                + 8.2.3 Printing chord names
>                + 8.2.4 Figured bass
>          o 8.3 Rhythmic music
>                + 8.3.1 Showing melody rhythms
>                + 8.3.2 Entering percussion
>                + 8.3.3 Percussion staves
>                + 8.3.4 Ghost notes
>          o 8.4 Guitar
>                + 8.4.1 String number indications
>                + 8.4.2 Tablatures basic
>                + 8.4.3 Non-guitar tablatures
>                + 8.4.4 Banjo tablatures
>                + 8.4.5 Fret diagrams
>                + 8.4.6 Right hand fingerings
>                + 8.4.7 Other guitar issues
>          o 8.5 Bagpipe
>                + 8.5.1 Bagpipe definitions
>                + 8.5.2 Bagpipe example
>          o 8.6 Bowed strings
>                + 8.6.1 Artificial harmonics
>          o 8.7 Ancient notation
>                + 8.7.1 Ancient note heads
>                + 8.7.2 Ancient accidentals
>                + 8.7.3 Ancient rests
>                + 8.7.4 Ancient clefs
>                + 8.7.5 Ancient flags
>                + 8.7.6 Ancient time signatures
>                + 8.7.7 Ancient articulations
>                + 8.7.8 Custodes
>                + 8.7.9 Divisiones
>                + 8.7.10 Ligatures
>                      # 8.7.10.1 White mensural ligatures
>                      # 8.7.10.2 Gregorian square neumes ligatures
>                + 8.7.11 Gregorian Chant contexts
>                + 8.7.12 Mensural contexts
>                + 8.7.13 Musica ficta accidentals
>    * 9 Text
>          o 9.1 Text in a score
>                + 9.1.1 Text scripts
>                + 9.1.2 Text and line spanners
>                + 9.1.3 Text spanners
>                + 9.1.4 Text marks
>          o 9.2 Text markup section
>                + 9.2.1 Text markup
>                + 9.2.2 Nested scores
>                + 9.2.3 Page wrapping text
>                + 9.2.4 Overview of text markup commands
>                + 9.2.5 Overview of text markup list commands
>                + 9.2.6 Font selection
>                + 9.2.7 New dynamic marks
>          o 9.3 Vocal music
>                + 9.3.1 Setting simple songs
>                + 9.3.2 Entering lyrics
>                + 9.3.3 Aligning lyrics to a melody
>                      # 9.3.3.1 Automatic syllable durations
>                      # 9.3.3.2 Another way of entering lyrics
>                      # 9.3.3.3 Assigning more than one syllable to a
>                      # single note
>                      # 9.3.3.4 More than one note on a single syllable
>                      # 9.3.3.5 Extenders and hyphens
>                + 9.3.4 Working with lyrics and identifiers
>                + 9.3.5 Flexibility in placement
>                      # 9.3.5.1 Lyrics to multiple notes of a melisma
>                      # 9.3.5.2 Divisi lyrics
>                      # 9.3.5.3 Switching the melody associated with a
>                      # lyrics line
>                      # 9.3.5.4 Lyrics independent of notes
>                + 9.3.6 Spacing lyrics
>                + 9.3.7 More about stanzas
>                      # 9.3.7.1 Adding stanza numbers
>                      # 9.3.7.2 Adding dynamics marks
>                      # 9.3.7.3 Adding singer names
>                      # 9.3.7.4 Printing stanzas at the end
>                      # 9.3.7.5 Printing stanzas at the end in multiple
>                      # columns
>                + 9.3.8 Ambitus
>                + 9.3.9 Other vocal issues
>          o 9.4 Titles and headers
>                + 9.4.1 Creating titles
>                + 9.4.2 Custom titles
>                + 9.4.3 Reference to page numbers
>                + 9.4.4 Table of contents
>    * 10 Input and output
>          o 10.1 Input files
>                + 10.1.1 File structure (introduction)
>                + 10.1.2 File structure
>                + 10.1.3 A single music expression
>                + 10.1.4 Multiple scores in a book
>                + 10.1.5 Extracting fragments of notation
>                + 10.1.6 Including LilyPond files
>                + 10.1.7 Different editions from one source
>                + 10.1.8 Text encoding
>          o 10.2 MIDI output
>                + 10.2.1 Creating MIDI files
>                + 10.2.2 MIDI block
>                + 10.2.3 MIDI instrument names
>          o 10.3 Displaying LilyPond notation
>          o 10.4 Skipping corrected music
>    * 11 Changing defaults
>
> -Rune
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
>


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Re: GDP: rearrangement

v.villenave
2007/9/11, Till Rettig <[hidden email]>:

Hello,

> For instance I could imagine
> a chapter "Ancient music", and one on educational subjects. At least I
> don't see why Ancient is "instrument specific", so why not put it in 7
> from the current suggestion, right after educational and special noteheads.

I'll let Graham do the talking on this one :)

> I am also somewhat unpleasant with the current "string" section in the
> instrument specific chapter: I would like to see here all those
> \bowdown, \bowup, \flageolet, \thumb and so on that are in
> "articulations" so far -- or at least a link to them. Well, that's
> already about contents, not only rearranging.

Yes, we should mention it (maybe in @seealso, or a @lsrtag link)

> I like the "text"-section, that is a good idea. But going the same way
> for other stuff as well... Name of chapter 7 should maybe be changed,
> not everything is about "decoration", there are some really important
> things. Would it be something like "polishing", "finishing" or the like?

Why does "decorating" have a negative meaning to everyone but me?
Your suggestions are fine too, though.

Regards,
Valentin


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Re: GDP: rearrangement

Juergen Reuter
> 2007/9/11, Till Rettig <[hidden email]>:
>
> Hello,
>
>> For instance I could imagine
>> a chapter "Ancient music", and one on educational subjects. At least I
>> don't see why Ancient is "instrument specific", so why not put it in 7
>> from the current suggestion, right after educational and special noteheads.
>

Maybe "genre specific" instead of "instrument specific" is the correct
term here.  Then, the "vocal music" can also stay in the chapter without
singers complaining that the the human voice is not an instrument (btw.
IMO the human voice _is_ an instrument, though a very special one).  But,
of course, I am also happy if you think that ancient music deserves a
chapter of its own. ;-)

Greetings,
Juergen


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Re: GDP: rearrangement

Rune Zedeler
In reply to this post by v.villenave
Valentin Villenave skrev:

> Why does "decorating" have a negative meaning to everyone but me?
> Your suggestions are fine too, though.

The problems are
- even though the term makes sense, it is quite difficult to uniquely
determine whether a specific feature is "decorating"
- Separating decorating stuff from non-decorating stuff moves closely
related items away from each other. E.g. automatic accidentals are
non-decorating whereas cautional accidentals are decorating. Ties are
non-decorating whereas slurs are decorating. Moving these sections away
from each other will make the manual very difficult to use.

-Rune



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Re: GDP: rearrangement

Trevor Bača-2
On 9/11/07, Rune Zedeler <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Valentin Villenave skrev:
>
> > Why does "decorating" have a negative meaning to everyone but me?
> > Your suggestions are fine too, though.
>
> The problems are
> - even though the term makes sense, it is quite difficult to uniquely
> determine whether a specific feature is "decorating"
> - Separating decorating stuff from non-decorating stuff moves closely
> related items away from each other. E.g. automatic accidentals are
> non-decorating whereas cautional accidentals are decorating. Ties are
> non-decorating whereas slurs are decorating. Moving these sections away
> from each other will make the manual very difficult to use.

Would it be bad for me to point to my previous thread (on flattening
the manual)? The problem isn't whether "decorative" is perjorative or
not; the problem is that grouping a bunch of (essential) notation
stuff under the larger header of "decorating" *or anything else*
doesn't actually buy us anything (and, in fact, separates related
notation elements, as Rune points out). Promote each decorating
section to the status of a free-standing chapter and the problem will
disappear.

We need not to freak out about a 20 or 30 chapter notaton reference;
that's perfectly valid for a reference.




--
Trevor Bača
[hidden email]

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Re: GDP: rearrangement

Till
In reply to this post by Juergen Reuter

-------- Original-Nachricht --------

> >
> > Hello,
> >
> >> For instance I could imagine
> >> a chapter "Ancient music", and one on educational subjects. At least I
> >> don't see why Ancient is "instrument specific", so why not put it in 7
> >> from the current suggestion, right after educational and special
> noteheads.
> >
>
> Maybe "genre specific" instead of "instrument specific" is the correct
> term here.  Then, the "vocal music" can also stay in the chapter without
> singers complaining that the the human voice is not an instrument (btw.
> IMO the human voice _is_ an instrument, though a very special one).
Sure it is, and this is important for Gregorian chant. But I can imagine thouthands of different instruments for which I would like to notate some mensural stuff. So this is just another style and nothing instrument specific.

But I would be happy with genre specific...

Greetings
Till
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