Free time

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Free time

Gonsolo
Is it possible to write music in Lilypond in free time and if yes how?

I have a piece without metrum where notes with a specific pitch appear
at a specific time and have a specific length (see the attached
picture) but there is no metrum.
How to write something like this in Lilypond?
I found information about  graphical notation which does not seem to
fit since the notes have a specific pitch.
The nearest would be the Unmeasured prelude
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqvm0k2VUtU) but this can't be
written since only one slur is allowed at a time.
The best method would be beams instead of notes but how to do this?

Thanks for your help.
--
g

free_rhythm.png (20K) Download Attachment
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Re: Free time

Claire Meyer-2
Hi G.

When I write unmetered music, my template is as joined. (It's for piano, so might need to be adapted.)

HTH,
Claire

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 8:07 PM Gonsolo <[hidden email]> wrote:
Is it possible to write music in Lilypond in free time and if yes how?

I have a piece without metrum where notes with a specific pitch appear
at a specific time and have a specific length (see the attached
picture) but there is no metrum.
How to write something like this in Lilypond?
I found information about  graphical notation which does not seem to
fit since the notes have a specific pitch.
The nearest would be the Unmeasured prelude
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqvm0k2VUtU) but this can't be
written since only one slur is allowed at a time.
The best method would be beams instead of notes but how to do this?

Thanks for your help.
--
g

unmetered.ly (1K) Download Attachment
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Re: Free time

Jacques Menu Muzhic
Hello Gonsolo,

You can multiple, simultaneous slurs as of the recent versions of LP.

JM

Le 2 oct. 2020 à 18:20, Claire Meyer <[hidden email]> a écrit :

Hi G.

When I write unmetered music, my template is as joined. (It's for piano, so might need to be adapted.)

HTH,
Claire

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 8:07 PM Gonsolo <[hidden email]> wrote:
Is it possible to write music in Lilypond in free time and if yes how?

I have a piece without metrum where notes with a specific pitch appear
at a specific time and have a specific length (see the attached
picture) but there is no metrum.
How to write something like this in Lilypond?
I found information about  graphical notation which does not seem to
fit since the notes have a specific pitch.
The nearest would be the Unmeasured prelude
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqvm0k2VUtU) but this can't be
written since only one slur is allowed at a time.
The best method would be beams instead of notes but how to do this?

Thanks for your help.
--
g
<unmetered.ly>

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Re: Free time

Gonsolo
In reply to this post by Claire Meyer-2
> When I write unmetered music, my template is as joined. (It's for piano, so might need to be adapted.)

Thanks, but that's only half the way. I want to write notes that do
not fit in the quaver/semiquaver scheme but start instantly at time,
say 1:37:158 and stop an 1:47:13. So the position and length of the
notes can't be expressed by usual time/measure/bars.
Also I want them to play simultaneously, let's say a c from 0:01:100
to 0:03:00 and a c# from 0:02:150 to 0:03:200.

That's harder.

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Re: Free time

Gonsolo
In reply to this post by Jacques Menu Muzhic
> You can multiple, simultaneous slurs as of the recent versions of LP.

How? The following does not work for meh (gives a warning about slurs
and only one slur visible):

\version "2.20"
{ c(( d) e) }

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Re: Free time

bobroff@centrum.is


----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gonsolo" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Jacques Menu" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "Claire Meyer" <[hidden email]>, "Lillypond Users Mailing List" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Friday, October 2, 2020 8:57:00 PM
> Subject: Re: Free time

>> You can multiple, simultaneous slurs as of the recent versions of LP.
>
> How? The following does not work for meh (gives a warning about slurs
> and only one slur visible):
>
> \version "2.20"
> { c(( d) e) }

You need to use phrasing slurs:

 \version "2.20"
 { c\(( d) e\) }

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Re: Free time

Kieren MacMillan
Hi all,

> On Oct 2, 2020, at 5:04 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> You need to use phrasing slurs:
> \version "2.20"
> { c\(( d) e\) }

No:

\version "2.20"
{ c'2'\=1(\=2(\=3( d''4\=1) g''\=3) e''\=2) }

Cheers,
Kieren.
________________________________

Kieren MacMillan, composer (he/him/his)
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: [hidden email]


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Re: Free time

Gonsolo
In reply to this post by bobroff@centrum.is
> You need to use phrasing slurs:
>  \version "2.20"
>  { c\(( d) e\) }

This gives me two levels of slurs but not three.


--
g

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Re: Free time

Gonsolo
In reply to this post by Kieren MacMillan
> No:
>
> \version "2.20"
> { c'2'\=1(\=2(\=3( d''4\=1) g''\=3) e''\=2) }

This fails with:
bla.ly:2:6: Fehler: octave marks must precede duration

--
g

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Re: Free time

Kieren MacMillan
Hi Gonsolo,

> This fails with:
> bla.ly:2:6: Fehler: octave marks must precede duration

Sorry for the typo (but surely you could have figured out the problem?!):

\version "2.20"
{ c''2\=1(\=2(\=3( d''4\=1) g''\=3) e''\=2) }

Cheers,
Kieren.
________________________________

Kieren MacMillan, composer (he/him/his)
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: [hidden email]


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Re: Free time

Gonsolo
> > bla.ly:2:6: Fehler: octave marks must precede duration
>
> Sorry for the typo (but surely you could have figured out the problem?!):

You are too quick for me. :)

Anyway, this works now. Unfortunately it is only a part of the problem
of free standing notes in free time. :/

Thanks.


--
g

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Re: Free time

Karlin High
On 10/2/2020 4:59 PM, Gonsolo wrote:
> Unfortunately it is only a part of the problem

If you can send an image of the result you want, there's a good chance
someone on the list could find a way to code it. Here's an example of
what's possible, portions of the C. Cardew "Treatise" score as coded by
Pierre Perol-Schneider:

<http://lilybin.com/u8vxbi/1>
--
Karlin High
Missouri, USA

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Re: Free time

Gonsolo
> If you can send an image of the result you want, there's a good chance
> someone on the list could find a way to code it.

I sent an image in my original email. Maybe it got scrubbed, here it is again:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1orTtGSuz7_DDLLaObLEMz0TJOP1nMy0K/view?usp=sharing



--
g

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Re: Free time

Karlin High
On 10/2/2020 7:36 PM, Gonsolo wrote:
> I sent an image in my original email.

Sorry, communication failure. The image of a MIDI "piano roll" did come
through. I was assuming you wanted those pitches and durations written
in staff notation somehow - with note heads, stems, slurs, and such.

I am attaching a screenshot of the YouTube video linked in an earlier
message, showing the Louis Couperin "Unmeasured" prelude for
harpsichord. This notation needs more than one slur at a time, and the
latest version of LilyPond can do this as Kieran MacMillan showed.

But for your project, I understand this only solves "part of the problem
of free standing notes in free time," and "the best method would be
beams instead of notes."

I think the fastest way to get good help would be getting some blank
staff paper, perhaps by this method...

<http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.20/Documentation/snippets/staff-notation#staff-notation-creating-blank-staves>

...and hand-drawing a short portion of the notation results you want.
Here is a past example of someone doing this:

<https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2016-07/msg00067.html>

That page will have a link for a PNG attachment showing the hand-drawn
notation.

That is from Andrew Bernard, whose posts would have many other such
examples from his work with very exacting "New Complexity School"
composers. Here's another one, also with a link to a PNG image:

<https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2016-06/msg00143.html>
--
Karlin High
Missouri, USA

unmeasured.png (320K) Download Attachment