Fonts from the former fonts.openlilylib.org

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Fonts from the former fonts.openlilylib.org

Carl Sorensen-3
Dear users,

As many of you are aware, we have lost the repository of the libre fonts
formerly available on fonts.openlilylib.org.

In order to preserve access to these fonts, I'm willing to host a
repository consistent with the license of the fonts as they were hosted at
that time.

However, I don't have the fonts available.

If any of you have a copy of the fonts that you downloaded, please send it
to me so that I can post it on my repository.

Thank you,

Carl Sorensen


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Re: Fonts from the former fonts.openlilylib.org

tisimst
Carl,

On Saturday, March 26, 2016, Carl Sorensen <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear users,

As many of you are aware, we have lost the repository of the libre fonts
formerly available on fonts.openlilylib.org.

In order to preserve access to these fonts, I'm willing to host a
repository consistent with the license of the fonts as they were hosted at
that time.

However, I don't have the fonts available.

If any of you have a copy of the fonts that you downloaded, please send it
to me so that I can post it on my repository.

Thank you,

Carl Sorensen

If there are no objections, I will provide you with the latest files that existed at the time I closed up shop. I can't stop you from hosting them, but if I can request one thing, I'd appreciate it. Would you please stop hosting when my new site is made public? That would help me a lot since I'm really the only one who can provide full support at the moment and I'd like to minimize the number of different versions I'm supporting. Thanks!

Best,
Abraham

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Re: Fonts from the former fonts.openlilylib.org

Carl Sorensen-3
On 3/26/16 12:09 PM, "Abraham Lee" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
>If there are no objections, I will provide you with the latest files that
>existed at the time I closed up shop. I can't stop you from hosting them,
>but if I can request one thing, I'd appreciate it. Would you please stop
>hosting when my new site is made
> public? That would help me a lot since I'm really the only one who can
>provide full support at the moment and I'd like to minimize the number of
>different versions I'm supporting. Thanks!


I appreciate your willingness to share the files that existed at the time
of closing up the shop.

I totally understand the issues of not wanting to have to support multiple
versions, and I'd like to be very supportive of you and your latest
versions.

I'm concerned, though, about people who have successfully used your free
versions, and then find that the newer version of the font is no longer
free, but is proprietary.  I think that having a proprietary font is
inconsistent with free software.  I'm not opposed to you having
proprietary versions of your fonts.  I'm not opposed to having the
proprietary versions of the font work with LilyPond.  But I'm concerned
about having proprietary fonts advertised in LilyPond's official website,
documentation, and mailing lists.

How would you feel about having a git repository of the fonts, with clear
labeling that the fonts are not your latest and are not supported by you,
as a historical repository of the old version of the fonts?

Thanks,

Carl





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Re: Fonts from the former fonts.openlilylib.org

Urs Liska


Am 26. März 2016 19:58:01 MEZ, schrieb Carl Sorensen <[hidden email]>:

>On 3/26/16 12:09 PM, "Abraham Lee" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>If there are no objections, I will provide you with the latest files
>that
>>existed at the time I closed up shop. I can't stop you from hosting
>them,
>>but if I can request one thing, I'd appreciate it. Would you please
>stop
>>hosting when my new site is made
>> public? That would help me a lot since I'm really the only one who
>can
>>provide full support at the moment and I'd like to minimize the number
>of
>>different versions I'm supporting. Thanks!
>
>
>I appreciate your willingness to share the files that existed at the
>time
>of closing up the shop.
>
>I totally understand the issues of not wanting to have to support
>multiple
>versions, and I'd like to be very supportive of you and your latest
>versions.
>
>I'm concerned, though, about people who have successfully used your
>free
>versions, and then find that the newer version of the font is no longer
>free, but is proprietary.  I think that having a proprietary font is
>inconsistent with free software.  

I would say the "inconsistency", if aby, is that Abraham didn't make the fonts proprietary right from the start.

I would see it the other way round: commercial fonts that happen to have free ancestors.

>I'm not opposed to you having
>proprietary versions of your fonts.  I'm not opposed to having the
>proprietary versions of the font work with LilyPond.  But I'm concerned
>about having proprietary fonts advertised in LilyPond's official
>website,
>documentation, and mailing lists.

Are they advertised in the website or docs? If so that should of course be modified by using free fonts as examples. But I don't think that even is the case.

>
>How would you feel about having a git repository of the fonts, with
>clear
>labeling that the fonts are not your latest and are not supported by
>you,
>as a historical repository of the old version of the fonts?

That might be an idea.

Urs

>
>Thanks,
>
>Carl
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>lilypond-user mailing list
>[hidden email]
>https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

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Re: Fonts from the former fonts.openlilylib.org

Stephen MacNeil
In reply to this post by Carl Sorensen-3
I don't think I read any where that Abraham was making the fonts "proprietary" .. I do believe he said "Some fonts are becoming commercial". And proprietary doesn't necessarily mean closed source. Although in most cases it does, because proprietary software if modified holds ownership "usually" with the owner. As for commercial software it can be licensed many ways. It's main goal is sometimes revenue. As I suspect it will be with Abraham.

Commercial software can still be free software. GNU is not against making money.. it's about free software

the question is how Abraham intends to make it commercial.

I suggest people look up Richard Stallman.

or watch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEAgx7HgC18

HTH
Stephen

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Re: Fonts from the former fonts.openlilylib.org

Andrew Bernard
In reply to this post by tisimst
Hi Abraham,

With your announcement of the commercialisation of your fonts and the taking down of the website, there is clearly a lot of speculation and uncertainty in the user community. Would you be so kind as to lay out for the list a full explanation of your approach going forward so as to assuage doubts and clarify the situation, instead of having list members second guess your intentions? I for one am quite concerned that the huge effort I have invested in scores using your fonts will become nullified.

Thanks!

Andrew


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Re: Fonts from the former fonts.openlilylib.org

tyronicus
Andrew Bernard wrote
I for one am quite concerned that the huge effort I have invested in
scores using your fonts will become nullified.
The fonts are licensed openly; you are free to keep using them if you
have them. It's the newer versions that may have restrictions, so
there may not be need for concern.

If you do have them, Carl and I are both looking for a copy.
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Re: Fonts from the former fonts.openlilylib.org

tisimst
In reply to this post by Andrew Bernard
Andrew, et al,

On Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 6:26 PM, Andrew Bernard [via Lilypond] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Abraham,

With your announcement of the commercialisation of your fonts and the taking down of the website, there is clearly a lot of speculation and uncertainty in the user community. Would you be so kind as to lay out for the list a full explanation of your approach going forward so as to assuage doubts and clarify the situation, instead of having list members second guess your intentions? I for one am quite concerned that the huge effort I have invested in scores using your fonts will become nullified.

Thanks!

No problem. Thanks for everyone's patience and questions. Let me lay out some things that should (hopefully) put the majority of questions to rest. I'll start from the beginning...

Last October I was laid off. Thankfully I had some funds saved up to make it by until about this last Christmas. Around that time I took to a lot of contemplation and after some encouragement from others, I made the executive decision to makes some changes to how I was distributing some of my fonts. I say "some" because there are a handful that are kind of out of my control due to their original licensing. Others of my own creation would become "commercialized". I wouldn't exactly call them proprietary since virtually everything in a font is exposed to the end user. I decided to set up a new store to facilitate these changes more effectively than what I was doing on fonts.openlilylib.org. I was hoping that this could provide a little extra side income for myself. I hope everyone can be understanding.

What does this mean? It means, as tyronicus and Urs have wisely stated (and is my intent), that the new licensing is not retroactive. In other words, if you have the fonts already, there is absolutely nothing I can (or intend to) do to make you pay the new licensing fees that will be associated with the new versions. So, Andrew, rest assured that you can keep and use the fonts that are in your possession.

Now, there's one more curve ball here that I fully understand and I want everyone else to understand. The copies of fonts previously distributed under a libre license IS STILL LICENSED THAT WAY. In other words, if that license allows you to distribute, make derivatives, etc., then YOU CAN without anyone's permission. I understand this and there's nothing I can do about it. If I could ask a favor, however, if you like what I've done, I would really appreciate it if someone comes asking any of you who have one of my fonts (specifically those that will be under a new license, which I'll mention below) that you refer them to my new website to acquire a license to use it instead of giving them the files you have. Acquiring the license also brings support for the fonts. I haven't yet determined if I would support the remaining libre fonts. I probably will, but only time will tell. I have no desire to leave anyone in the dark. I want to help. I'll just have to prioritize my time towards those who have paid for it. Chances are that I'll still be able to support everyone. I sincerely hope I can. Only time will tell if I will be able to do any major updates to the remaining free fonts.

Speaking of changes, here are the fonts that will fall under the new commercial licensing:
- Arnold
- Beethoven
- Cadence
- Gutenberg1939
- Haydn
- Improviso
- Ross
- Scorlatti

What will be different about them? The main thing is that they will all be completely sterilized from the Emmentaler glyphs. Previously, I left the Emmentaler glyphs in where the font didn't have a replacement. These have all been removed. I hope to add many of the missing glyphs where possible. I've tried hard to make sure that there is still a substantial set available that should cover the majority of normal use cases. Glyphs in the shape-notes and ancient notation sets will not be included in any of the commercial fonts. I just don't see any point to that because I'd just be duplicating the effort there when you can already access them through Emmentaler.

Everything else will remain free, available through my site. Right off the bat, I will probably only have an update for LilyJAZZ, but others will hopefully follow soon.

Hopefully that clarifies things. Let me know if there are further questions!

Best,
Abraham
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Re: Fonts from the former fonts.openlilylib.org

Andrew Bernard
In reply to this post by tyronicus
What I am concerned about is how would a lawyer or the owner know if you were using the open source font or the commercial one? There is no way to tell the difference from a published score as far as I would know.  There are now many concerns. Hopefully the developed will clarify for us soon.

Andrew


On 27/03/2016, 12:02, "tyronicus" <[hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]> wrote:

The fonts are licensed openly; you are free to keep using them if you
have them. It's the newer versions that may have restrictions, so
there may not be need for concern.

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Re: Fonts from the former fonts.openlilylib.org

tisimst
Andrew,

On Saturday, March 26, 2016, Andrew Bernard <[hidden email]> wrote:
What I am concerned about is how would a lawyer or the owner know if you were using the open source font or the commercial one? There is no way to tell the difference from a published score as far as I would know.  There are now many concerns. Hopefully the developed will clarify for us soon.

These are valid concerns. I can assure you that the newly commercial ones will have certain font metadata that are unique to the transition. There are other things that will tell the difference, too. There won't be nearly as many glyphs as in the earlier files because I had to completely separate them from Emmentaler in order to put them under the new license at all. There's also the OS's creation date that's embedded in each file. Pretty much anything with a creation date prior to January 1, 2016 is in the "open-source" category. I'm not really concerned what anyone might do with them because they are subject to their own licenses and I know what's legally allowed and what's not.

The point to all this is to let you know there are lots of ways a lawyer could find out the needed info, so you'll be covered.

Hopefully that can bring you some peace of mind over the situation. If not, please don't hesitate to ask more questions and I'll do my best to answer them.

Best,
Abraham

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Re: Fonts from the former fonts.openlilylib.org

N. Andrew Walsh
A side note: it seems to me that one of Abraham's root causes for wanting to commercialize the substantial work he's done making engraving fonts is his own financial situation. If this is the case, it might be worth considering some of the crowd-funding mechanisms that support development work. For example, though I've never used it before, Patreon ( www.patreon.com) allows groups to fund developers with a monthly contribution. One or two people chipping in might not amount to much, but a whole lot of people chipping in a bit might indeed make up a substantial supplementary income. (one of my favorite game mods is funded this way, netting the developer about €1k a month). 

My concern is that trying to build an income by commercializing fonts that have already been out in the wild for a while seems problematic both from the side of its viability as a business venture and from the licensing side (as well as the social side of a community that's been freely using a resource that now looks to become somewhat less free). Abraham, is this an option that you've considered? 

On the purely abstract level, I'm much more in favor of working from patronage rather than sales and licensing.

Cheers,

A

On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 5:55 AM, Abraham Lee <[hidden email]> wrote:
Andrew,

On Saturday, March 26, 2016, Andrew Bernard <[hidden email]> wrote:
What I am concerned about is how would a lawyer or the owner know if you were using the open source font or the commercial one? There is no way to tell the difference from a published score as far as I would know.  There are now many concerns. Hopefully the developed will clarify for us soon.

These are valid concerns. I can assure you that the newly commercial ones will have certain font metadata that are unique to the transition. There are other things that will tell the difference, too. There won't be nearly as many glyphs as in the earlier files because I had to completely separate them from Emmentaler in order to put them under the new license at all. There's also the OS's creation date that's embedded in each file. Pretty much anything with a creation date prior to January 1, 2016 is in the "open-source" category. I'm not really concerned what anyone might do with them because they are subject to their own licenses and I know what's legally allowed and what's not.

The point to all this is to let you know there are lots of ways a lawyer could find out the needed info, so you'll be covered.

Hopefully that can bring you some peace of mind over the situation. If not, please don't hesitate to ask more questions and I'll do my best to answer them.

Best,
Abraham

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Re: Fonts from the former fonts.openlilylib.org

tisimst
Andrew,

On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 12:39 AM, N. Andrew Walsh [via Lilypond] <[hidden email]> wrote:
A side note: it seems to me that one of Abraham's root causes for wanting to commercialize the substantial work he's done making engraving fonts is his own financial situation.

You have understood the situation correctly!
 
If this is the case, it might be worth considering some of the crowd-funding mechanisms that support development work. For example, though I've never used it before, Patreon ( www.patreon.com) allows groups to fund developers with a monthly contribution. One or two people chipping in might not amount to much, but a whole lot of people chipping in a bit might indeed make up a substantial supplementary income. (one of my favorite game mods is funded this way, netting the developer about €1k a month). 

My concern is that trying to build an income by commercializing fonts that have already been out in the wild for a while seems problematic both from the side of its viability as a business venture and from the licensing side (as well as the social side of a community that's been freely using a resource that now looks to become somewhat less free). Abraham, is this an option that you've considered? 

On the purely abstract level, I'm much more in favor of working from patronage rather than sales and licensing.

I'm really glad you brought this up. To be quite honest, I have considered it and I continue to wrestle with the idea. I am definitely willing to consider this. That way, I can technically continue to offer the fonts freely and the regular patronage covers any continued development as well as user support. In fact, I'd much rather do this if I can feel find a crowd-funding service that I feel good about. I have considered Patreon before, but before I jump into that, does anyone else have any other suggestion? If anyone has first-hand experiences with crowd-funding, I would appreciate hearing from you.

Best,
Abraham
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Re: Fonts from the former fonts.openlilylib.org

Urs Liska


Am 27. März 2016 10:13:20 MESZ, schrieb tisimst <[hidden email]>:

>Andrew,
>
>On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 12:39 AM, N. Andrew Walsh [via Lilypond] <
>[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> A side note: it seems to me that one of Abraham's root causes for
>wanting
>> to commercialize the substantial work he's done making engraving
>fonts is
>> his own financial situation.
>>
>
>You have understood the situation correctly!
>
>
>> If this is the case, it might be worth considering some of the
>> crowd-funding mechanisms that support development work. For example,
>though
>> I've never used it before, Patreon ( www.patreon.com) allows groups
>to
>> fund developers with a monthly contribution. One or two people
>chipping in
>> might not amount to much, but a whole lot of people chipping in a bit
>might
>> indeed make up a substantial supplementary income. (one of my
>favorite game
>> mods is funded this way, netting the developer about €1k a month).
>>
>> My concern is that trying to build an income by commercializing fonts
>that
>> have already been out in the wild for a while seems problematic both
>from
>> the side of its viability as a business venture and from the
>licensing side
>> (as well as the social side of a community that's been freely using a
>> resource that now looks to become somewhat less free). Abraham, is
>this an
>> option that you've considered?
>>
>> On the purely abstract level, I'm much more in favor of working from
>> patronage rather than sales and licensing.
>>
>
>I'm really glad you brought this up. To be quite honest, I have
>considered
>it and I continue to wrestle with the idea. I am definitely willing to
>consider this. That way, I can technically continue to offer the fonts
>freely and the regular patronage covers any continued development as
>well
>as user support. In fact, I'd much rather do this if I can feel find a
>crowd-funding service that I feel good about. I have considered Patreon
>before, but before I jump into that, does anyone else have any other
>suggestion? If anyone has first-hand experiences with crowd-funding, I
>would appreciate hearing from you.

You had this "Donate" button online. Did this generate *anything*?


>
>Best,
>Abraham
>
>
>
>
>--
>View this message in context:
>http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Fonts-from-the-former-fonts-openlilylib-org-tp188991p189023.html
>Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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Re: Fonts from the former fonts.openlilylib.org

bart deruyter
Hi all,

reading this thread, I've been doing some searching, rather 'googling' about fonts and lilypond. 

Given the current situation, there is a lot of confusion. With this I mean that right now I find everywhere that you can change the font, of course fonts.openlilylib.org is closed, which leads us to close to none free alternative fonts (I might be wrong though, but I know of none, except Bravura and lilyJazz).

But on for example http://lilypondblog.org/ there are several articles about the fonts now being in the discussion, with links to fonts.openlilylib.org, which don't work anymore of course. 

Also, the way how to install fonts in lilypond is quite hard to find on the web. It is an action not every user performs regularly, so people (like me) tend to forget and have to look it up again. I used to look it up on fonts.openlilylib.org, but that one is down. So now I found the detailed instructions on a github page. 

I have those fonts downloaded about a year ago, I guess. I don't really need them at the moment, but because of reading this thread I tried to install them again now, using todays lilypond code and it took me about an hour, reading through articles just to find an up to date instruction to know what to do.

What I want to say is that for an average user, not following this mailing list, it is hard to figure out what is going on right now. Or to know what to do if they find alternative fonts.

I understand that Abraham needs time to figure out what he will do with his fonts in the future, but it I think it is important that the information on blogs and other websites are updated to the current situation, even only a warning in the article,  mentioning that the fonts are not available (or an alternative site where the fonts are) at the moment would be enough. Also the information about how to install those fonts, in detail, as in step by step guide, with and without scripts to ease the installation process, should be more easily found.

grtz,
Bart




2016-03-27 11:57 GMT+02:00 Urs Liska <[hidden email]>:


Am 27. März 2016 10:13:20 MESZ, schrieb tisimst <[hidden email]>:
>Andrew,
>
>On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 12:39 AM, N. Andrew Walsh [via Lilypond] <
>[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> A side note: it seems to me that one of Abraham's root causes for
>wanting
>> to commercialize the substantial work he's done making engraving
>fonts is
>> his own financial situation.
>>
>
>You have understood the situation correctly!
>
>
>> If this is the case, it might be worth considering some of the
>> crowd-funding mechanisms that support development work. For example,
>though
>> I've never used it before, Patreon ( www.patreon.com) allows groups
>to
>> fund developers with a monthly contribution. One or two people
>chipping in
>> might not amount to much, but a whole lot of people chipping in a bit
>might
>> indeed make up a substantial supplementary income. (one of my
>favorite game
>> mods is funded this way, netting the developer about €1k a month).
>>
>> My concern is that trying to build an income by commercializing fonts
>that
>> have already been out in the wild for a while seems problematic both
>from
>> the side of its viability as a business venture and from the
>licensing side
>> (as well as the social side of a community that's been freely using a
>> resource that now looks to become somewhat less free). Abraham, is
>this an
>> option that you've considered?
>>
>> On the purely abstract level, I'm much more in favor of working from
>> patronage rather than sales and licensing.
>>
>
>I'm really glad you brought this up. To be quite honest, I have
>considered
>it and I continue to wrestle with the idea. I am definitely willing to
>consider this. That way, I can technically continue to offer the fonts
>freely and the regular patronage covers any continued development as
>well
>as user support. In fact, I'd much rather do this if I can feel find a
>crowd-funding service that I feel good about. I have considered Patreon
>before, but before I jump into that, does anyone else have any other
>suggestion? If anyone has first-hand experiences with crowd-funding, I
>would appreciate hearing from you.

You had this "Donate" button online. Did this generate *anything*?


>
>Best,
>Abraham
>
>
>
>
>--
>View this message in context:
>http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Fonts-from-the-former-fonts-openlilylib-org-tp188991p189023.html
>Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>lilypond-user mailing list
>[hidden email]
>https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

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Re: Fonts from the former fonts.openlilylib.org

tisimst
In reply to this post by Urs Liska
Urs,

On Sunday, March 27, 2016, Urs Liska <[hidden email]> wrote:


Am 27. März 2016 10:13:20 MESZ, schrieb tisimst <<a href="javascript:;" onclick="_e(event, &#39;cvml&#39;, &#39;tisimst.lilypond@gmail.com&#39;)">tisimst.lilypond@...>:
>Andrew,
>
>On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 12:39 AM, N. Andrew Walsh [via Lilypond] <
><a href="javascript:;" onclick="_e(event, &#39;cvml&#39;, &#39;ml-node+s1069038n189018h67@n5.nabble.com&#39;)">ml-node+s1069038n189018h67@...> wrote:
>
>> A side note: it seems to me that one of Abraham's root causes for
>wanting
>> to commercialize the substantial work he's done making engraving
>fonts is
>> his own financial situation.
>>
>
>You have understood the situation correctly!
>
>
>> If this is the case, it might be worth considering some of the
>> crowd-funding mechanisms that support development work. For example,
>though
>> I've never used it before, Patreon ( www.patreon.com) allows groups
>to
>> fund developers with a monthly contribution. One or two people
>chipping in
>> might not amount to much, but a whole lot of people chipping in a bit
>might
>> indeed make up a substantial supplementary income. (one of my
>favorite game
>> mods is funded this way, netting the developer about €1k a month).
>>
>> My concern is that trying to build an income by commercializing fonts
>that
>> have already been out in the wild for a while seems problematic both
>from
>> the side of its viability as a business venture and from the
>licensing side
>> (as well as the social side of a community that's been freely using a
>> resource that now looks to become somewhat less free). Abraham, is
>this an
>> option that you've considered?
>>
>> On the purely abstract level, I'm much more in favor of working from
>> patronage rather than sales and licensing.
>>
>
>I'm really glad you brought this up. To be quite honest, I have
>considered
>it and I continue to wrestle with the idea. I am definitely willing to
>consider this. That way, I can technically continue to offer the fonts
>freely and the regular patronage covers any continued development as
>well
>as user support. In fact, I'd much rather do this if I can feel find a
>crowd-funding service that I feel good about. I have considered Patreon
>before, but before I jump into that, does anyone else have any other
>suggestion? If anyone has first-hand experiences with crowd-funding, I
>would appreciate hearing from you.

You had this "Donate" button online. Did this generate *anything*?

Relatively little, actually, but I am so grateful to those who were able to contribute something. Most of the donations, though, came from users outside the 'Pond, via making my fonts work for other programs or commissioning new, private designs.

I'll say it again--I am soooo grateful to for the kindness of those who contributed. I probably wouldn't still be doing anything related to music font design without them. 

So, what should I do to justify my continued work? I really enjoy doing it, which certainly helps keep me interested, but I've pondered this question a long time. That's why I decided to make these licensing changes--so that I could expand my user-base by supporting an increased number of notation applications.

There has been an overwhelming amount of support for this change. So, I plan on continuing forward with my decision in whatever way makes the most sense for me. 

Best,
Abraham


>
>Best,
>Abraham
>
>
>
>
>--
>View this message in context:
>http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Fonts-from-the-former-fonts-openlilylib-org-tp188991p189023.html
>Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Mobiltelefon mit K-9 Mail gesendet.

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Re: Fonts from the former fonts.openlilylib.org

Carl Sorensen-3
In reply to this post by Stephen MacNeil
On 3/26/16 5:09 PM, "Stephen MacNeil" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>I don't think I read any where that Abraham was making the fonts
>"proprietary" .. I do believe he said "Some fonts are becoming
>commercial". And proprietary doesn't necessarily mean closed source.
>Although in most cases it does, because proprietary software if modified
>holds ownership "usually" with the owner. As for commercial software it
>can be licensed many ways. It's main goal is sometimes revenue. As I
>suspect it will be with Abraham.
>
>Commercial software can still be free software. GNU is not against making
>money.. it's about free software

Yes, and there are four freedoms in free software:
0: The freedom to use it as you wish. -- I'd be shocked if Abraham's new
commercial fonts don't support this freedom.
1: The freedom to study how it works and change it so id does computing as
you wish.  -- I think that with fonts you are always free to study.  I'm
less sure about changing.
2: The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor. --
Abraham has implied that the new fonts will not come with this freedom,
and has asked users to voluntarily not exercise this freedom with the old
fonts.  Certainly there is a clash between Abraham's desires to
commercialize his work and the use of this freedom with the old fonts.
3: The freedom distribute copies of your modified versions to others.  --
I have seen no evidence that some are trying to exercise this freedom with
the old fonts.  Certainly the old fonts are based in part on having this
freedom for Emmentaler.  According to Abraham, one of the major changes in
the new fonts is eliminating any connection to Emmentaler, which is
necessary for his commercialization plans because Emmentaler is licensed
under GNU GPL which requires any derivative works to also be free (as in
speech) software, granting the four freedoms.

You can see RMS talking about it at TEDxGeneva:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag1AKIl_2GM

I do not agree with RMS when he talks about exploitation, and about the
evil intent of those who create proprietary software.  In particular, I
don't claim that Abraham is trying to anything bad in commercializing his
fonts.


From Abraham's actions (taking down fonts.openlilylib.org and asking
people not to exercise freedom 2) I infer that his commercial model will
no longer support the four freedoms.  Hence I referred to his commercial
fonts as "proprietary".  I admit that this is *my* designation, not his.
But I was specifically trying to draw the distinction between free as in
beer and free as in speech.

I have no claims to Abraham's work on his commercial fonts, and I don't
plan to make any.  But the old fonts are free software, and I believe that
they should continue to be available to users who have depended upon them
in the past.

Thanks,

Carl


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Re: Fonts from the former fonts.openlilylib.org

Paul Morris
In reply to this post by tisimst
> On Mar 27, 2016, at 4:13 AM, tisimst <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I have considered Patreon before, but before I jump into that, does anyone else have any other suggestion?

Gratipay (formerly Gittip) is worth considering: https://gratipay.com/

It is more radical than Patreon insofar as: "Gratipay is funded on Gratipay. We don't take a cut of payments (though we do pass through processing fees at cost).”  from https://gratipay.com/about/
 
Also, they are now organized around teams and what they call “open-work”.  It’s an interesting model, one that may or may not fit your particular case.

-Paul
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Re: Fonts from the former fonts.openlilylib.org

tyronicus
Abraham,

I wish you the best in your future efforts with music font design. You
definitely have a talent for it and your efforts have been
commendable. Gumroad might be a good option for distribution and it
would also allow you to provide the older fonts on a pay-what-you-want
model.

At least until such time as you offer your fonts for purchase, it
doesn't hurt you to have them out in the open. They have been
unavailable for about three months. So, I hope that you can forgive me
for going against your wishes and posting them.

http://filedropper.com/alternate-lily-fonts
cbeede5e33c8157317fe2178c3dc9157  alternate-lily-fonts.zip [34.5 MB]
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Re: Fonts from the former fonts.openlilylib.org

tisimst
In reply to this post by Paul Morris

On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 9:09 AM, Paul Morris <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Mar 27, 2016, at 4:13 AM, tisimst <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I have considered Patreon before, but before I jump into that, does anyone else have any other suggestion?

Gratipay (formerly Gittip) is worth considering: https://gratipay.com/

It is more radical than Patreon insofar as: "Gratipay is funded on Gratipay. We don't take a cut of payments (though we do pass through processing fees at cost).”  from https://gratipay.com/about/

Also, they are now organized around teams and what they call “open-work”.  It’s an interesting model, one that may or may not fit your particular case.

-Paul

Thanks, Paul. I'll look into that.

Best,
Abraham

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Re: Fonts from the former fonts.openlilylib.org

tisimst
In reply to this post by tyronicus
tyronicus,

On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 1:09 PM, tyronicus [via Lilypond] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Abraham,

I wish you the best in your future efforts with music font design. You
definitely have a talent for it and your efforts have been
commendable.

Thanks for your kind words!
 
Gumroad might be a good option for distribution and it
would also allow you to provide the older fonts on a pay-what-you-want
model.

Interesting... I'll look into it!
 
At least until such time as you offer your fonts for purchase, it
doesn't hurt you to have them out in the open. They have been
unavailable for about three months. So, I hope that you can forgive me
for going against your wishes and posting them.

http://filedropper.com/alternate-lily-fonts
cbeede5e33c8157317fe2178c3dc9157  alternate-lily-fonts.zip [34.5 MB]

Well, like I said, I fully understand that this can be done and I do forgive you. Holding it against you or holding a grudge isn't in my nature. So, whoever wants to use the files, please enjoy them! That's the least I could ask. As always, I'm curious to see how people decide to use them in their own works.

I'll probably make the old site (slightly updated) available with all the (then) libre files, including the installation/usage instructions. So, stay tuned!

Hope everyone has a wonderful day!

- Abraham
12