Export to MusicXML

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Export to MusicXML

Alex Roitman
Hello,

I apologize in advance if this was already asked and answered on this list.  I’m looking into exporting some of my lilypond music into the MusicXML format. All I could find so far was the python-ly package that attempts to translate ly files into MusicXML.  It has some issues that could be fixed, and some that I don’t think could be so easily fixed, e.g. whether or not to place accidentals, beams, and so on.

It seems to me that the nature of the MusicXML format is such that in can only be correctly written when the music is interpreted in context.  Which is what lilypond does.  So I’m guessing that the right way to go about this is to create a new Translator, alongside Performer and Engraver, that instead of midi/graphical objects just dumps XML.

Finally, here are my questions:
1. Does this seem like a right approach?
2. Was this ever attempted and is there any work left that one can continue?

Thanks in advance for any help!
Alex


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Re: Export to MusicXML

James Lowe-4
Hello Alex,

On 16/10/2018 5:49 am, Alex Roitman wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I apologize in advance if this was already asked and answered on this list.  I’m looking into exporting some of my lilypond music into the MusicXML format. All I could find so far was the python-ly package that attempts to translate ly files into MusicXML.  It has some issues that could be fixed, and some that I don’t think could be so easily fixed, e.g. whether or not to place accidentals, beams, and so on.
>
> It seems to me that the nature of the MusicXML format is such that in can only be correctly written when the music is interpreted in context.  Which is what lilypond does.  So I’m guessing that the right way to go about this is to create a new Translator, alongside Performer and Engraver, that instead of midi/graphical objects just dumps XML.
>
> Finally, here are my questions:
> 1. Does this seem like a right approach?
> 2. Was this ever attempted and is there any work left that one can continue?
>
> Thanks in advance for any help!
> Alex

I am not sure about work that was 'left' (or attempted in the past) but
I assume you have checked our issue tracker? (although a lot of the open
issues are to do with musicxml2ly than anything else.

At first blush I'd say no. However I have only been with LP for ~ 6
years and cannot recall anything in that time, but there may have been
some work done previously, but I cannot see any 'abandoned' issues
either - where you may see some remnant of previous work/patches.

Also see:

https://sourceforge.net/p/testlilyissues/issues/665/

Which may have some of the kind of answers/information you might be seeking.


Regards

James




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Re: Export to MusicXML

Jan-Peter Voigt
In reply to this post by Alex Roitman
Hello Alex,

you don't have to apologize for this question! It comes up every now and
then, but has not been answered satisfyingly yet. My answers to your
questions are:
1. Yes
2. I wrote a rudimentary engraver-based solution last year which is
waiting for clean-up and completion to support MEI, MusicXML, Humdrum,
LilyPond (!) and any other format for which an export-module with a
defined API exists.
https://github.com/jpvoigt/lilypond-export/

The code in the project is able to export a MusicXML-File for a simple
lilypond-score. The resulting files are not always correct/functional so
this is more sketch of the idea. The base is an engraver that fetches
and collects events and on score-finalization calls the specified export
module with this (normalized) music collection.
The collection is some scheme-structure, but should probably be better a
normal LilyPond music-expression.

Just a little piece of something ;-)
HTH
Jan-Peter


Am 16.10.2018 um 06:49 schrieb Alex Roitman:

> Hello,
>
> I apologize in advance if this was already asked and answered on this list.  I’m looking into exporting some of my lilypond music into the MusicXML format. All I could find so far was the python-ly package that attempts to translate ly files into MusicXML.  It has some issues that could be fixed, and some that I don’t think could be so easily fixed, e.g. whether or not to place accidentals, beams, and so on.
>
> It seems to me that the nature of the MusicXML format is such that in can only be correctly written when the music is interpreted in context.  Which is what lilypond does.  So I’m guessing that the right way to go about this is to create a new Translator, alongside Performer and Engraver, that instead of midi/graphical objects just dumps XML.
>
> Finally, here are my questions:
> 1. Does this seem like a right approach?
> 2. Was this ever attempted and is there any work left that one can continue?
>
> Thanks in advance for any help!
> Alex
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> lilypond-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
>


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Re: Export to MusicXML

Paul Morris
For Google Summer of Code 2015 David Garfinkle worked on MusicXML export.

(See mailing list archives:
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/cgi-bin/namazu.cgi?query=Garfinkle&submit=Search%21&idxname=lilypond-devel&max=20&result=normal&sort=score 
)

I don't know if the code he wrote was ever checked in somewhere, on a
branch or something.  (It's not mentioned in the issue for this
feature.)  I have a copy of it somewhere that he sent me, but I'd assume
that Jan-Peter's work on this would be the better place to start /
collaborate.

-Paul

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Re: Export to MusicXML

Kieren MacMillan
In reply to this post by Jan-Peter Voigt
Hi Jan-Peter,

> 2. I wrote a rudimentary engraver-based solution last year which is
> waiting for clean-up and completion to support MEI, MusicXML

> The code in the project is able to export a MusicXML-File for a simple
> lilypond-score. The resulting files are not always correct/functional so
> this is more sketch of the idea. The base is an engraver that fetches
> and collects events and on score-finalization calls the specified export
> module with this (normalized) music collection.
> The collection is some scheme-structure, but should probably be better a
> normal LilyPond music-expression.

1. Why would it be "better" as a normal Lilypond music-expression?

2. Is it currently in a state where someone with limited Scheme chops, but good XML chops, could take the MusicXML portion to the goal line?

Thanks,
Kieren.
________________________________

Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: [hidden email]


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Re: Export to MusicXML

Paul Morris
In reply to this post by Paul Morris
On 10/16/2018 10:48 AM, Paul Morris wrote:

> I don't know if the code he wrote was ever checked in somewhere, on a
> branch or something.  (It's not mentioned in the issue for this feature.)

I've now added the GSOC 2015 code to the issue and put a link to
Jan-Peter's work there as well.
https://sourceforge.net/p/testlilyissues/issues/665/

-Paul

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Re: Export to MusicXML

James Lowe-3
In reply to this post by Paul Morris
Hello

(we seemed to have lost Alex along the way on this thread)

On 16/10/2018 3:48 pm, Paul Morris wrote:

> For Google Summer of Code 2015 David Garfinkle worked on MusicXML export.
>
> (See mailing list archives:
> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/cgi-bin/namazu.cgi?query=Garfinkle&submit=Search%21&idxname=lilypond-devel&max=20&result=normal&sort=score 
> )
>
> I don't know if the code he wrote was ever checked in somewhere, on a
> branch or something.  (It's not mentioned in the issue for this
> feature.)  I have a copy of it somewhere that he sent me, but I'd
> assume that Jan-Peter's work on this would be the better place to
> start / collaborate.
>
> -Paul

You can see it still here

https://docs.google.com/document/d/12zLGWrf6a_0J9H44Coo25s-pYsv-zH_g-oBqw6Shnrc/edit?usp=sharing,

(I checked)

Also see:
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2016-03/msg00167.html


James


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Re: Export to MusicXML

David Kastrup
In reply to this post by Paul Morris
Paul Morris <[hidden email]> writes:

> For Google Summer of Code 2015 David Garfinkle worked on MusicXML export.
>
> (See mailing list archives:
> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/cgi-bin/namazu.cgi?query=Garfinkle&submit=Search%21&idxname=lilypond-devel&max=20&result=normal&sort=score
> )
>
> I don't know if the code he wrote was ever checked in somewhere, on a
> branch or something.  (It's not mentioned in the issue for this
> feature.)  I have a copy of it somewhere that he sent me, but I'd
> assume that Jan-Peter's work on this would be the better place to
> start / collaborate.

I posted it a few times on the mailing list, having acted as the mentor.
One problem is that it will be of best utility once Guile-2 (and the
respective XML libraries) are in use, and it's more a technological
starting point than a result-oriented one.  Of course, the ultimate goal
is the same.

--
David Kastrup

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Re: Export to MusicXML

Alex Roitman
In reply to this post by Jan-Peter Voigt
Thank you Jan-Peter!  This looks really promising, and I’d love to contribute.

I’m only vaguely familiar with Scheme so I’ll probably take a bit of time to get my hands dirty with that.  Would it be OK to bug you with questions every now and then? Is this list a good place, or should I just email you privately?  I promise I won’t abuse your kindness :-)

Alex

> On Oct 16, 2018, at 2:04 AM, Jan-Peter Voigt <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hello Alex,
>
> you don't have to apologize for this question! It comes up every now and
> then, but has not been answered satisfyingly yet. My answers to your
> questions are:
> 1. Yes
> 2. I wrote a rudimentary engraver-based solution last year which is
> waiting for clean-up and completion to support MEI, MusicXML, Humdrum,
> LilyPond (!) and any other format for which an export-module with a
> defined API exists.
> https://github.com/jpvoigt/lilypond-export/
>
> The code in the project is able to export a MusicXML-File for a simple
> lilypond-score. The resulting files are not always correct/functional so
> this is more sketch of the idea. The base is an engraver that fetches
> and collects events and on score-finalization calls the specified export
> module with this (normalized) music collection.
> The collection is some scheme-structure, but should probably be better a
> normal LilyPond music-expression.
>
> Just a little piece of something ;-)
> HTH
> Jan-Peter
>
>
> Am 16.10.2018 um 06:49 schrieb Alex Roitman:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I apologize in advance if this was already asked and answered on this list.  I’m looking into exporting some of my lilypond music into the MusicXML format. All I could find so far was the python-ly package that attempts to translate ly files into MusicXML.  It has some issues that could be fixed, and some that I don’t think could be so easily fixed, e.g. whether or not to place accidentals, beams, and so on.
>>
>> It seems to me that the nature of the MusicXML format is such that in can only be correctly written when the music is interpreted in context.  Which is what lilypond does.  So I’m guessing that the right way to go about this is to create a new Translator, alongside Performer and Engraver, that instead of midi/graphical objects just dumps XML.
>>
>> Finally, here are my questions:
>> 1. Does this seem like a right approach?
>> 2. Was this ever attempted and is there any work left that one can continue?
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any help!
>> Alex
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> lilypond-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> lilypond-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel


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Re: Export to MusicXML

Alex Roitman
In reply to this post by David Kastrup
I saw the code link, and I will check it out soon, thank you all!

Alex

> On Oct 16, 2018, at 8:32 AM, David Kastrup <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Paul Morris <[hidden email]> writes:
>
>> For Google Summer of Code 2015 David Garfinkle worked on MusicXML export.
>>
>> (See mailing list archives:
>> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/cgi-bin/namazu.cgi?query=Garfinkle&submit=Search%21&idxname=lilypond-devel&max=20&result=normal&sort=score
>> )
>>
>> I don't know if the code he wrote was ever checked in somewhere, on a
>> branch or something.  (It's not mentioned in the issue for this
>> feature.)  I have a copy of it somewhere that he sent me, but I'd
>> assume that Jan-Peter's work on this would be the better place to
>> start / collaborate.
>
> I posted it a few times on the mailing list, having acted as the mentor.
> One problem is that it will be of best utility once Guile-2 (and the
> respective XML libraries) are in use, and it's more a technological
> starting point than a result-oriented one.  Of course, the ultimate goal
> is the same.
>
> --
> David Kastrup
>
> _______________________________________________
> lilypond-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel


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Re: Export to MusicXML

Urs Liska-3
In reply to this post by Alex Roitman


Am 16. Oktober 2018 20:13:29 MESZ schrieb Alex Roitman <[hidden email]>:
>Thank you Jan-Peter!  This looks really promising, and I’d love to
>contribute.
>
>I’m only vaguely familiar with Scheme so I’ll probably take a bit of
>time to get my hands dirty with that.  Would it be OK to bug you with
>questions every now and then? Is this list a good place, or should I
>just email you privately?  I promise I won’t abuse your kindness :-)

Please use this list, as there are several others who may be interested and / or helpful.

Urs

>
>Alex
>
>> On Oct 16, 2018, at 2:04 AM, Jan-Peter Voigt <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Alex,
>>
>> you don't have to apologize for this question! It comes up every now
>and
>> then, but has not been answered satisfyingly yet. My answers to your
>> questions are:
>> 1. Yes
>> 2. I wrote a rudimentary engraver-based solution last year which is
>> waiting for clean-up and completion to support MEI, MusicXML,
>Humdrum,
>> LilyPond (!) and any other format for which an export-module with a
>> defined API exists.
>> https://github.com/jpvoigt/lilypond-export/
>>
>> The code in the project is able to export a MusicXML-File for a
>simple
>> lilypond-score. The resulting files are not always correct/functional
>so
>> this is more sketch of the idea. The base is an engraver that fetches
>> and collects events and on score-finalization calls the specified
>export
>> module with this (normalized) music collection.
>> The collection is some scheme-structure, but should probably be
>better a
>> normal LilyPond music-expression.
>>
>> Just a little piece of something ;-)
>> HTH
>> Jan-Peter
>>
>>
>> Am 16.10.2018 um 06:49 schrieb Alex Roitman:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I apologize in advance if this was already asked and answered on
>this list.  I’m looking into exporting some of my lilypond music into
>the MusicXML format. All I could find so far was the python-ly package
>that attempts to translate ly files into MusicXML.  It has some issues
>that could be fixed, and some that I don’t think could be so easily
>fixed, e.g. whether or not to place accidentals, beams, and so on.
>>>
>>> It seems to me that the nature of the MusicXML format is such that
>in can only be correctly written when the music is interpreted in
>context.  Which is what lilypond does.  So I’m guessing that the right
>way to go about this is to create a new Translator, alongside Performer
>and Engraver, that instead of midi/graphical objects just dumps XML.
>>>
>>> Finally, here are my questions:
>>> 1. Does this seem like a right approach?
>>> 2. Was this ever attempted and is there any work left that one can
>continue?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance for any help!
>>> Alex
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> lilypond-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> lilypond-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>lilypond-devel mailing list
>[hidden email]
>https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel

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Re: Export to MusicXML

Jan-Peter Voigt
In reply to this post by Alex Roitman
Hi Alex,

you're very welcome! And I'm always open for questions and discussions
about the code. For general questions you should use the list so that
others can join or at least follow the discussion. (I think Urs said so
already). If we get to the point where direct communication is
reasonable we can also exchange jabber, skype, slack or signal contacts.

Jan-Peter




Am 16.10.18 um 20:13 schrieb Alex Roitman:

> Thank you Jan-Peter!  This looks really promising, and I’d love to contribute.
>
> I’m only vaguely familiar with Scheme so I’ll probably take a bit of time to get my hands dirty with that.  Would it be OK to bug you with questions every now and then? Is this list a good place, or should I just email you privately?  I promise I won’t abuse your kindness :-)
>
> Alex
>
>> On Oct 16, 2018, at 2:04 AM, Jan-Peter Voigt <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Alex,
>>
>> you don't have to apologize for this question! It comes up every now and
>> then, but has not been answered satisfyingly yet. My answers to your
>> questions are:
>> 1. Yes
>> 2. I wrote a rudimentary engraver-based solution last year which is
>> waiting for clean-up and completion to support MEI, MusicXML, Humdrum,
>> LilyPond (!) and any other format for which an export-module with a
>> defined API exists.
>> https://github.com/jpvoigt/lilypond-export/
>>
>> The code in the project is able to export a MusicXML-File for a simple
>> lilypond-score. The resulting files are not always correct/functional so
>> this is more sketch of the idea. The base is an engraver that fetches
>> and collects events and on score-finalization calls the specified export
>> module with this (normalized) music collection.
>> The collection is some scheme-structure, but should probably be better a
>> normal LilyPond music-expression.
>>
>> Just a little piece of something ;-)
>> HTH
>> Jan-Peter
>>
>>
>> Am 16.10.2018 um 06:49 schrieb Alex Roitman:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I apologize in advance if this was already asked and answered on this list.  I’m looking into exporting some of my lilypond music into the MusicXML format. All I could find so far was the python-ly package that attempts to translate ly files into MusicXML.  It has some issues that could be fixed, and some that I don’t think could be so easily fixed, e.g. whether or not to place accidentals, beams, and so on.
>>>
>>> It seems to me that the nature of the MusicXML format is such that in can only be correctly written when the music is interpreted in context.  Which is what lilypond does.  So I’m guessing that the right way to go about this is to create a new Translator, alongside Performer and Engraver, that instead of midi/graphical objects just dumps XML.
>>>
>>> Finally, here are my questions:
>>> 1. Does this seem like a right approach?
>>> 2. Was this ever attempted and is there any work left that one can continue?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance for any help!
>>> Alex
>>>
>>>

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Re: Export to MusicXML

Jan-Peter Voigt
In reply to this post by David Kastrup
... by the way: what is the current state of guile2 in lilypond?
I recently noticed some mails on the list.

Jan-Peter

Am 16.10.18 um 17:32 schrieb David Kastrup:

> Paul Morris <[hidden email]> writes:
>
>> For Google Summer of Code 2015 David Garfinkle worked on MusicXML export.
>>
>> (See mailing list archives:
>> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/cgi-bin/namazu.cgi?query=Garfinkle&submit=Search%21&idxname=lilypond-devel&max=20&result=normal&sort=score
>> )
>>
>> I don't know if the code he wrote was ever checked in somewhere, on a
>> branch or something.  (It's not mentioned in the issue for this
>> feature.)  I have a copy of it somewhere that he sent me, but I'd
>> assume that Jan-Peter's work on this would be the better place to
>> start / collaborate.
>
> I posted it a few times on the mailing list, having acted as the mentor.
> One problem is that it will be of best utility once Guile-2 (and the
> respective XML libraries) are in use, and it's more a technological
> starting point than a result-oriented one.  Of course, the ultimate goal
> is the same.
>


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Re: Export to MusicXML

Jan-Peter Voigt
In reply to this post by Kieren MacMillan
Hi Kieren,


Am 16.10.18 um 16:54 schrieb Kieren MacMillan:

> Hi Jan-Peter,
>
>> 2. I wrote a rudimentary engraver-based solution last year which is
>> waiting for clean-up and completion to support MEI, MusicXML
>
>> The code in the project is able to export a MusicXML-File for a simple
>> lilypond-score. The resulting files are not always correct/functional so
>> this is more sketch of the idea. The base is an engraver that fetches
>> and collects events and on score-finalization calls the specified export
>> module with this (normalized) music collection.
>> The collection is some scheme-structure, but should probably be better a
>> normal LilyPond music-expression.
>
> 1. Why would it be "better" as a normal Lilypond music-expression?
hm, did I misorder my words? Now I think it maybe be better to store the
music in plain lilypond expressions e.g. SequentialMusic. Right now the
music is stored in an alist by measure and moment. That way the exporter
can easily iterate over the measures and moments and place the events in
the resulting export format, but my intuition says that it might be
better if the exporter modules rely on something lilypond can reuse
itself directly. In other words: I think it would be better *not* to
create another structure.
But it is just something to have in mind and to consider while
developing further.

> 2. Is it currently in a state where someone with limited Scheme chops, but good XML chops, could take the MusicXML portion to the goal line?
Right now it is a sketch of an idea, so it might or might not fulfill
anyones needs:

1. it is incomplete in that it doesn't translate all elements.
2. the MusicXML is created "manually" with simple string-concatenation.
That is not a problem if the resulting file is correct, but ...
3. some files are incorrect and cannot be loaded by MuseScore

It would be very helpful to have an XML-lib at hand for the export. I
started a simple function that takes an alist structure end writes it as
XML. But I am hesitant to really use that because if it is injected it
might stop the integration of the standard libs when they are available.

Jan-Peter

>
> Thanks,
> Kieren.
> ________________________________
>
> Kieren MacMillan, composer
> ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
> ‣ email: [hidden email]
>


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Re: Export to MusicXML

Urs Liska-3


Am 17.10.2018 um 08:55 schrieb Jan-Peter Voigt:

> Hi Kieren,
>
>
> Am 16.10.18 um 16:54 schrieb Kieren MacMillan:
>> Hi Jan-Peter,
>>
>>> 2. I wrote a rudimentary engraver-based solution last year which is
>>> waiting for clean-up and completion to support MEI, MusicXML
>>> The code in the project is able to export a MusicXML-File for a simple
>>> lilypond-score. The resulting files are not always correct/functional so
>>> this is more sketch of the idea. The base is an engraver that fetches
>>> and collects events and on score-finalization calls the specified export
>>> module with this (normalized) music collection.
>>> The collection is some scheme-structure, but should probably be better a
>>> normal LilyPond music-expression.
>> 1. Why would it be "better" as a normal Lilypond music-expression?
> hm, did I misorder my words? Now I think it maybe be better to store the
> music in plain lilypond expressions e.g. SequentialMusic. Right now the
> music is stored in an alist by measure and moment. That way the exporter
> can easily iterate over the measures and moments and place the events in
> the resulting export format, but my intuition says that it might be
> better if the exporter modules rely on something lilypond can reuse
> itself directly. In other words: I think it would be better *not* to
> create another structure.
> But it is just something to have in mind and to consider while
> developing further.
>
>> 2. Is it currently in a state where someone with limited Scheme chops, but good XML chops, could take the MusicXML portion to the goal line?
> Right now it is a sketch of an idea, so it might or might not fulfill
> anyones needs:
>
> 1. it is incomplete in that it doesn't translate all elements.
> 2. the MusicXML is created "manually" with simple string-concatenation.
> That is not a problem if the resulting file is correct, but ...
> 3. some files are incorrect and cannot be loaded by MuseScore
>
> It would be very helpful to have an XML-lib at hand for the export. I
> started a simple function that takes an alist structure end writes it as
> XML. But I am hesitant to really use that because if it is injected it
> might stop the integration of the standard libs when they are available.

One thought which at least I had never considered yet: what is the SVG
backend actually doing? This *does* write XML, isn't it? Would it be an
idea to hook into *this* process or at least use some code from there?
(Of course an export wouldn't need the layout information and should
actually skip the layout process).

Urs

> Jan-Peter
>
>> Thanks,
>> Kieren.
>> ________________________________
>>
>> Kieren MacMillan, composer
>> ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
>> ‣ email: [hidden email]
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> lilypond-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel


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Re: Export to MusicXML

Paul Morris
In reply to this post by Jan-Peter Voigt
On 10/17/18 2:55 AM, Jan-Peter Voigt wrote:

> 2. the MusicXML is created "manually" with simple string-concatenation.
> [...]
> It would be very helpful to have an XML-lib at hand for the export.

Hi all,  I've done some work on this.  See this PR:

https://github.com/jpvoigt/lilypond-export/pull/9

Cheers,
-Paul


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