Ehy fonts?

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
10 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Ehy fonts?

Rune Zedeler
I serched the archives without finding this question asked.

We hopefully agree that having to trace the fonts is an ugly hack that
contradicts everything that lilypond stands for.

The natural question is:
Why use fonts instead of pdf templates?

Using templates would allow for the metapost-code to be used directly in
the pdfs.

-Rune


_______________________________________________
lilypond-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Ehy fonts?

Han-Wen Nienhuys-2
Rune Zedeler escreveu:
> I serched the archives without finding this question asked.
>
> We hopefully agree that having to trace the fonts is an ugly hack that
> contradicts everything that lilypond stands for.



>
> The natural question is:
> Why use fonts instead of pdf templates?
 
* philosophically: because the set of glyphs essentially  a font

* practically: fonts have
  - glyph subsetting,
  - hinting,
  - specialized libraries (eg Freetype)
  - naturally allow for glyphs which are in fact letters (msfzp 1-9)

> Using templates would allow for the metapost-code to be used directly in
> the pdfs.

I think the proper solution is to convert all fonts to outlines, and use
mf2pt1. This bypasses the tracing step. See the archives for more details.

--

Han-Wen Nienhuys - [hidden email] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen

LilyPond Software Design
 -- Code for Music Notation
http://www.lilypond-design.com



_______________________________________________
lilypond-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Ehy fonts?

Rune Zedeler
Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:

> I think the proper solution is to convert all fonts to outlines, and use
> mf2pt1. This bypasses the tracing step. See the archives for more details.

I agree.
Would it be to cumbersome to add a two-part font-conversion, using
mf2pt1 for the glyphs that consists of outlines, and trace the rest?

-Rune




_______________________________________________
lilypond-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Ehy fonts?

Han-Wen Nienhuys-2
Rune Zedeler escreveu:
>> I think the proper solution is to convert all fonts to outlines, and use
>> mf2pt1. This bypasses the tracing step. See the archives for more
>> details.
>
> I agree.

> Would it be to cumbersome to add a two-part font-conversion, using
> mf2pt1 for the glyphs that consists of outlines, and trace the rest?

I think it's a bad idea, because we'd have to keep two code-paths in
the air and write buildscripts to integrate both sets of glyphs.

Do you have a specific reason why you want to ditch the traced fonts?

--

Han-Wen Nienhuys - [hidden email] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen

LilyPond Software Design
 -- Code for Music Notation
http://www.lilypond-design.com



_______________________________________________
lilypond-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Ehy fonts?

Rune Zedeler
In reply to this post by Han-Wen Nienhuys-2
Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:

> I think the proper solution is to convert all fonts to outlines, and use
> mf2pt1. This bypasses the tracing step. See the archives for more details.

Will it be acceptable to require FontForge? I.e. will it be acceptable
to allow overlapping paths?

-Rune




_______________________________________________
lilypond-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Ehy fonts?

Han-Wen Nienhuys-2
Rune Zedeler escreveu:
> Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
>
>> I think the proper solution is to convert all fonts to outlines, and use
>> mf2pt1. This bypasses the tracing step. See the archives for more
>> details.
>
> Will it be acceptable to require FontForge? I.e. will it be acceptable
> to allow overlapping paths?

we already require fontforge, so I don't see a problem.

--

Han-Wen Nienhuys - [hidden email] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen

LilyPond Software Design
 -- Code for Music Notation
http://www.lilypond-design.com



_______________________________________________
lilypond-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Ehy fonts?

Rune Zedeler
In reply to this post by Han-Wen Nienhuys-2
Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:

> Do you have a specific reason why you want to ditch the traced fonts?

You must be kidding.
A huge amount of effort has been made in producing a perfect font. We
have spend hours and hours with magnifying glasses, tweaking the symbols
to get them just right.
Then messing it up in post processing is just plainly stupid.

Attached a blow-up of the 11pt sharp.
Look at the "rounded" corners, especially the rightmost ones. They look
more hexagonal than round, eh.

-Rune

_______________________________________________
lilypond-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel

feta_sharp.png (9K) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Ehy fonts?

Han-Wen Nienhuys-2
Rune Zedeler escreveu:

> Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
>
>> Do you have a specific reason why you want to ditch the traced fonts?
>
> You must be kidding.
> A huge amount of effort has been made in producing a perfect font. We
> have spend hours and hours with magnifying glasses, tweaking the symbols
> to get them just right.
> Then messing it up in post processing is just plainly stupid.
>
> Attached a blow-up of the 11pt sharp.
> Look at the "rounded" corners, especially the rightmost ones. They look
> more hexagonal than round, eh.

Well, you have a point, but I suspect that this is hardly visible at normal
printer resolution.

For fun, try to make a blow-up of some SCORE output. SCORE is the package
that 80% of the serious publishers still use for their best material.

SCORE does not support curves, but only uses polylines.


--

Han-Wen Nienhuys - [hidden email] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen

LilyPond Software Design
 -- Code for Music Notation
http://www.lilypond-design.com



_______________________________________________
lilypond-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Ehy fonts?

Rune Zedeler
Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:

> Well, you have a point, but I suspect that this is hardly visible at normal
> printer resolution.

Well.
Tried to produce 1200 dpi version. (by setting zoom-level to 1667% in
acroread).
Attached.

-Rune

_______________________________________________
lilypond-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel

feta11_sharp_1200dpi.png (562 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Ehy fonts?

Werner LEMBERG

> Well.  Tried to produce 1200 dpi version. (by setting zoom-level to
> 1667% in acroread).

What about giving a helping hand?  Converting the glyphs for ancient
music into something which provides good results with mf2pt1 isn't
rocket science.  It's rather a boring job because you have to replace
elegant MetaFont strokes with outlines.

I've hesitated to do it by myself because J├╝rgen promised to work on
this too.  However, he seems to have no time currently.  Additionally,
I think that some glyph shapes could be improved, but I have
absolutely no `feeling' for ancient music glyphs.


    Werner


_______________________________________________
lilypond-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel