Do brackets always result in barlines?

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Do brackets always result in barlines?

Trevor Bača-2
Question:

Is it always the case that staves that bracket together (with flared
brackets, square brackets, piano braces, whatever) also always *bar*
together?

There are two obvious exceptions:

1. The "global" bracket that (about half the time) groups together the
entire orchestra obviously doesn't result in barlines stretching
through the entire orchestra; examples are Varèse's Intégrales, Dalla
piccola's Piccola musica notturna, Boulez's Marteau sans maître, etc.

2. Scores without barlines may still have brackets; Babbit's
Post-Partitions is four staves for the piano, witha  bracket but
(almost) no barlines.

But aside from these two exceptions, is it the case that brackets
*always* result in barlines? Or is the generalization false?


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Trevor Bača
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Re: Do brackets always result in barlines?

Mats Bengtsson-6
One obvious exception in LilyPond is ChoirStaff. But, maybe you
are asking about general notation practice?

   /Mats

Trevor Bača wrote:

>Question:
>
>Is it always the case that staves that bracket together (with flared
>brackets, square brackets, piano braces, whatever) also always *bar*
>together?
>
>There are two obvious exceptions:
>
>1. The "global" bracket that (about half the time) groups together the
>entire orchestra obviously doesn't result in barlines stretching
>through the entire orchestra; examples are Varèse's Intégrales, Dalla
>piccola's Piccola musica notturna, Boulez's Marteau sans maître, etc.
>
>2. Scores without barlines may still have brackets; Babbit's
>Post-Partitions is four staves for the piano, witha  bracket but
>(almost) no barlines.
>
>But aside from these two exceptions, is it the case that brackets
>*always* result in barlines? Or is the generalization false?
>
>
>--
>Trevor Bača
>[hidden email]
>  
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>lilypond-user mailing list
>[hidden email]
>http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>  
>

--
=============================================
        Mats Bengtsson
        Signal Processing
        Signals, Sensors and Systems
        Royal Institute of Technology
        SE-100 44  STOCKHOLM
        Sweden
        Phone: (+46) 8 790 8463
        Fax:   (+46) 8 790 7260
        Email: [hidden email]
        WWW: http://www.s3.kth.se/~mabe
=============================================



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Re: Do brackets always result in barlines?

Jan Nieuwenhuizen
In reply to this post by Trevor Bača-2
Trevor Bača writes:

> Question:
>
> Is it always the case that staves that bracket together (with flared
> brackets, square brackets, piano braces, whatever) also always *bar*
> together?

Why do you ask?

In LilyPond, the barring together is performed by the
Span_bar_engraver.  It will only bar together if the staves both have
a bar at the same time.  You'll also have to juggle with the timing-
translator to allow different time signatures at all.  Consider the
snippet below, and see what happers when you uncomment the span-bar
bit.

Jan.

\layout {
  \context {
    \Score
    \remove "Timing_translator"
    \remove "Default_bar_line_engraver"
  }
  \context {
    \Staff
    \consists "Timing_translator"
    \consists "Default_bar_line_engraver"
  }
  \context {
    \PianoStaff
%    \remove "Span_bar_engraver"
  }
}

\context PianoStaff <<
 \context Staff = md { \time 3/4 c d e c d e c d e c d e }
 \context Staff = mg { \time 4/4 \clef bass c1 c c }
>>
--
Jan Nieuwenhuizen <[hidden email]> | GNU LilyPond - The music typesetter
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jantien       | http://www.lilypond.org


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Re: Do brackets always result in barlines?

Han-Wen Nienhuys
In reply to this post by Trevor Bača-2
Trevor Bača wrote:
> Question:
>
> Is it always the case that staves that bracket together (with flared
> brackets, square brackets, piano braces, whatever) also always *bar*
> together?

In lily, this is controlled with 2 separate engravers, the
Span_bar_engraver and the System_start_delimiter_engraver,  so both can
be changed independently.

--
  Han-Wen Nienhuys - [hidden email] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen


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Re: Do brackets always result in barlines?

Trevor Bača-2
On 11/18/05, Han-Wen Nienhuys <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Trevor Bača wrote:
> > Question:
> >
> > Is it always the case that staves that bracket together (with flared
> > brackets, square brackets, piano braces, whatever) also always *bar*
> > together?
>
> In lily, this is controlled with 2 separate engravers, the
> Span_bar_engraver and the System_start_delimiter_engraver,  so both can
> be changed independently.
Sorry, all: I was, as Mats guessed, asking about general notation
practice. And it seems like the correct generalization with regards to
notation practice is: barlines never *cross* brackets; not all
brackets result in bars, but where barlines are written, they never
cross the boundaries of bracketted staves.

Is this last generalization true (in terms of general notation)? I
might not be looking closely enough at actual scores?



--
Trevor Bača
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