Disappearing dynamics

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Disappearing dynamics

Andrew Bernard
Hi All,

I apologize for the seeming lunacy of this post! I am using lilypond
2.19.82 on Ubuntu 18.10. I am currently engraving a string quarter. Only
seven or eight pages in, I have started added in the dynamics and I find
they just disappear - they don't show. I am simply adding dynamics to the
notes, not in a separate Dynamics context. I am utterly unable to provide
an MWE to support this, as it only happens in the context of my full work,
the complete apparatus of which is very large. I am unable to binary chop
things to see where the error could come from, it's just impractical. The
worst part is that some dynamics show, and they only show after repeated
compile after compile. This latter point is what makes me think there may
be some very subtle memory related bug involved here.

Has anybody heard of this crazy behaviour? There's not a mention of such in
the lilypond user archives.

I cant figure out what to do next, except give up the engraving, which is
slightly sub-optimal.

Any suggestions would be gratefully received.

Andrew
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Re: Disappearing dynamics

Urs Liska-3


Am 9. November 2018 02:46:25 MEZ schrieb Andrew Bernard <[hidden email]>:

>Hi All,
>
>I apologize for the seeming lunacy of this post! I am using lilypond
>2.19.82 on Ubuntu 18.10. I am currently engraving a string quarter.
>Only
>seven or eight pages in, I have started added in the dynamics and I
>find
>they just disappear - they don't show. I am simply adding dynamics to
>the
>notes, not in a separate Dynamics context. I am utterly unable to
>provide
>an MWE to support this, as it only happens in the context of my full
>work,
>the complete apparatus of which is very large. I am unable to binary
>chop
>things to see where the error could come from, it's just impractical.

But if you are using Gut or another VCS you should be able to identify the first additions that exposed the issue. This *may* give you some pointers.

Best
Urs

>The
>worst part is that some dynamics show, and they only show after
>repeated
>compile after compile. This latter point is what makes me think there
>may
>be some very subtle memory related bug involved here.
>
>Has anybody heard of this crazy behaviour? There's not a mention of
>such in
>the lilypond user archives.
>
>I cant figure out what to do next, except give up the engraving, which
>is
>slightly sub-optimal.
>
>Any suggestions would be gratefully received.
>
>Andrew
>_______________________________________________
>bug-lilypond mailing list
>[hidden email]
>https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-lilypond

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Re: Disappearing dynamics

Andrew Bernard
Hi Urs,

Thanks for the tip. It just happened with the first dynamic I added on
about page seven. Everything fine until then.

Having worked as a UNIX professional developer for a very long time, I can
tell you something equally lunatic sounding. It has a whiff of being
related to file system buffering, again, crazy as that may sound. I have
the music in one file, and the score/layout in another file. I save the
music file, and then in Frescobaldi switch to the score file and compile.
If I save both files and compile each one enough times the dynamics
eventually appear. This is so bizarre I feel like I am in some sort of
science fiction film. It's almost like the score file has not caught the
write to disk of the music file.

Does this add any light to it? Why is it only dynamics that go missing?
Something is playing tricks on me. :-)

I'll test compiling from the command line to eliminate any Frescobaldi
issues.

Andrew


On Fri, 9 Nov 2018 at 16:44, Urs Liska <[hidden email]> wrote:

> But if you are using Gut or another VCS you should be able to identify the
> first additions that exposed the issue. This *may* give you some pointers.
>
>
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Re: Disappearing dynamics

Urs Liska-3


Am 9. November 2018 07:51:05 MEZ schrieb Andrew Bernard <[hidden email]>:

>Hi Urs,
>
>Thanks for the tip. It just happened with the first dynamic I added on
>about page seven. Everything fine until then.
>
>Having worked as a UNIX professional developer for a very long time, I
>can
>tell you something equally lunatic sounding. It has a whiff of being
>related to file system buffering, again, crazy as that may sound. I
>have
>the music in one file, and the score/layout in another file. I save the
>music file, and then in Frescobaldi switch to the score file and
>compile.
>If I save both files and compile each one enough times the dynamics
>eventually appear. This is so bizarre I feel like I am in some sort of
>science fiction film. It's almost like the score file has not caught
>the
>write to disk of the music file.
>
>Does this add any light to it?

At least not for me ...

> Why is it only dynamics that go missing?
>Something is playing tricks on me. :-)
>
>I'll test compiling from the command line to eliminate any Frescobaldi
>issues.

That was the first thing I was going to suggest. Using verbose output is the other.

Urs

>
>Andrew
>
>
>On Fri, 9 Nov 2018 at 16:44, Urs Liska <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> But if you are using Gut or another VCS you should be able to
>identify the
>> first additions that exposed the issue. This *may* give you some
>pointers.
>>
>>

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Re: Disappearing dynamics

Andrew Bernard
OK. Using a command line compile there is no sign of this issue.

At least I can continue with the engraving.

This looks not to be a lilypond bug now but an interaction between
Frescobaldi and Ubuntu 18.10.

In which case it looks like I have to abandon Frescobaldi after all these
years. Not good!

I suppose the next test is to try out Frescobaldi with the score on a
different distro. That will take a while. I shall report back in due course.

My guess is that it is Ubuntu 18.10. There's something slightly wobbly
about it in Virtualbox on my machines.

Andrew
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Re: Disappearing dynamics

Urs Liska-3


Am 9. November 2018 08:00:08 MEZ schrieb Andrew Bernard <[hidden email]>:

>OK. Using a command line compile there is no sign of this issue.
>
>At least I can continue with the engraving.
>
>This looks not to be a lilypond bug now but an interaction between
>Frescobaldi and Ubuntu 18.10.
>
>In which case it looks like I have to abandon Frescobaldi after all
>these
>years. Not good!
>
>I suppose the next test is to try out Frescobaldi with the score on a
>different distro. That will take a while. I shall report back in due
>course.
>
>My guess is that it is Ubuntu 18.10. There's something slightly wobbly
>about it in Virtualbox on my machines.

You could try determining the exact command line that Frescobaldi generates.
How you can do that depends on what version of Frescobaldi you use, as I've recently made some changes to the way the engraving jobs are handled.

Urs

>
>Andrew

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Re: Disappearing dynamics

Andrew Bernard
Hi Urs,

Installed Debian 9.5 and all. The error, I am sorry to say, is in
Frescobaldi, displayed in Ubuntu 18.10 and Debian 9.5. Using emacs and
command line lilypond works fine on both Linux distros. Using Frescobaldi
3.0.0, the dynamics appear only intermittently, with no apparent pattern.

I am at a complete loss to understand this, and I cannot imagine how to
demonstrate it without giving away my entire library of code and IP. It's
completely inexplicable to me why only dynamics are affected. So far, this
is just a ten page start on a string quartet, so I don't think the system
is stretched to its limits at all.

This behaviour shows up whether using the lilypond default system fonts, or
Linux Biolinum O that I use, or any other font.

What this means is that unless anybody ever sees this that I will have to
give up using Frescobaldi, a great pity.

If anybody has any clue how to debug this it would be great. I do not know
how to get the lilypond command for compiling out of Frescobaldi to examine.

Andrew
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Re: Disappearing dynamics

Urs Liska-3


Am 9. November 2018 15:07:41 MEZ schrieb Andrew Bernard <[hidden email]>:

>Hi Urs,
>
>Installed Debian 9.5 and all. The error, I am sorry to say, is in
>Frescobaldi, displayed in Ubuntu 18.10 and Debian 9.5. Using emacs and
>command line lilypond works fine on both Linux distros. Using
>Frescobaldi
>3.0.0, the dynamics appear only intermittently, with no apparent
>pattern.
>
>I am at a complete loss to understand this, and I cannot imagine how to
>demonstrate it without giving away my entire library of code and IP.
>It's
>completely inexplicable to me why only dynamics are affected. So far,
>this
>is just a ten page start on a string quartet, so I don't think the
>system
>is stretched to its limits at all.
>
>This behaviour shows up whether using the lilypond default system
>fonts, or
>Linux Biolinum O that I use, or any other font.
>
>What this means is that unless anybody ever sees this that I will have
>to
>give up using Frescobaldi, a great pity.
>
>If anybody has any clue how to debug this it would be great. I do not
>know
>how to get the lilypond command for compiling out of Frescobaldi to
>examine.

.As said I need to know whether you use Frescobaldi from a release (downloaded or distribution) or from its Git repository.

Depending on that (also the result of frescobaldi -V) I can give you some code to debug the LilyPond invocation.

Urs

>
>Andrew

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Re: Disappearing dynamics

Graham King-4
In reply to this post by Andrew Bernard

On 9 Nov 2018, at 14:07, Andrew Bernard wrote:

> I do not know
> how to get the lilypond command for compiling out of Frescobaldi to examine.

...but you might be able to get it out of the process table by using the Linux command "ps" with a suitable flag (see "man ps" on your distro).  This needs to be done while Frescobaldi is executing lilypond, so you might need to run ps in a loop to catch it.

Something like:

  while true ; do ps -C lilypond -f ; sleep 1 ; done

might work.  Run it, then compile the music in frescobaldi, then interrupt the while-loop using Ctrl-C, and inspect the output.


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Re: Disappearing dynamics

Urs Liska-3

Am 12.11.18 um 22:15 schrieb Graham King:

> On 9 Nov 2018, at 14:07, Andrew Bernard wrote:
>
>> I do not know
>> how to get the lilypond command for compiling out of Frescobaldi to examine.
> ...but you might be able to get it out of the process table by using the Linux command "ps" with a suitable flag (see "man ps" on your distro).  This needs to be done while Frescobaldi is executing lilypond, so you might need to run ps in a loop to catch it.
>
> Something like:
>
>    while true ; do ps -C lilypond -f ; sleep 1 ; done
>
> might work.  Run it, then compile the music in frescobaldi, then interrupt the while-loop using Ctrl-C, and inspect the output.

Thank you for the input, but - moving this to private discussion - I
gave him the lines of code to inject into Frescobaldi that print the
generated command line.

Didn't seem to help unfortunately. So far it really seems that LilyPond
behaves inconsistently in this case when run as a subprocess of Frescobaldi.

Urs

>
>
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Re: Disappearing dynamics

Kevin Barry
> Didn't seem to help unfortunately. So far it really seems that LilyPond
> behaves inconsistently in this case when run as a subprocess of Frescobaldi.

How bizarre. I wonder what difference there could possibly be that
would make files appear to have different content. Does this issue
occur in Frescobaldi if opening after a successful (i.e. dynamics
appear correctly) compile from the cli and without making any edits?
Does running sync before compilation make any difference? Do dynamics
ever disappear after they have successfully appeared once?

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Re: Disappearing dynamics

Andrew Bernard
Hi k\Kevin and All,

It ranks as one of the most bizarre bugs I have ever seen (and I speak as a
software developer of many decades). It's only with Frescobaldi. Command
line compilation is fine. It's only dynamic markings, which is puzzling -
whatever is going on? Running sync of course I tried, thinking the same as
you. but to no effect. Once the dynamics appear, then they continue to
appear.

A mystery of the cosmos. Perhaps dynamic markings have become shy or
recalcitrant. It's difficult to know how to debug this. Same behaviour in
printing Debian 9.6 and Ubuntu 18.10.

Andrew


On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 at 09:37, Kevin Barry <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> How bizarre. I wonder what difference there could possibly be that
> would make files appear to have different content. Does this issue
> occur in Frescobaldi if opening after a successful (i.e. dynamics
> appear correctly) compile from the cli and without making any edits?
> Does running sync before compilation make any difference? Do dynamics
> ever disappear after they have successfully appeared once?
>
>
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Re: Disappearing dynamics

Carl Sorensen-3
Have you tried changing the lilypond call in Frescobaldi to a gdb lilypond call, so that you can pause the execution of lilypond and give Frescobaldi time to do whatever it might do -- and then continue lilypond from the debugger?

Have you tried changing the Frescobaldi options for displaying the pdf to get to a minimal Frescobaldi run that doesn't do much but generate the pdf?

This sounds like a truly bizarre bug.

Carl

´╗┐On 11/12/18, 4:46 PM, "Andrew Bernard" <[hidden email]> wrote:

    Hi k\Kevin and All,
   
    It ranks as one of the most bizarre bugs I have ever seen (and I speak as a
    software developer of many decades). It's only with Frescobaldi. Command
    line compilation is fine. It's only dynamic markings, which is puzzling -
    whatever is going on? Running sync of course I tried, thinking the same as
    you. but to no effect. Once the dynamics appear, then they continue to
    appear.
   
    A mystery of the cosmos. Perhaps dynamic markings have become shy or
    recalcitrant. It's difficult to know how to debug this. Same behaviour in
    printing Debian 9.6 and Ubuntu 18.10.
   
    Andrew
   
   
    On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 at 09:37, Kevin Barry <[hidden email]> wrote:
   
    >
    > How bizarre. I wonder what difference there could possibly be that
    > would make files appear to have different content. Does this issue
    > occur in Frescobaldi if opening after a successful (i.e. dynamics
    > appear correctly) compile from the cli and without making any edits?
    > Does running sync before compilation make any difference? Do dynamics
    > ever disappear after they have successfully appeared once?
    >
    >
   
   

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Re: Disappearing dynamics

Andrew Bernard
Hi Carl,

Have not tried that idea.

The weird thing is that it's only dynamics that are affected. I thought it
might be some subtle font caching issue with the font I use, but I reverted
to lilypond default and the same occurs. Once the dynamic finally makes
itself visible, it stays.

This may remain forever an unsolved mystery. But it makes Frescobaldi
currently unusable for me, espcially as I am in the 'add dynamics' phase
that I do. I have several decades of UNIX software development experience,
and I have never seen anything resembling this. I promise I am not making
it up!

Andrew



On Wed, 14 Nov 2018 at 05:08, Carl Sorensen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Have you tried changing the lilypond call in Frescobaldi to a gdb lilypond
> call, so that you can pause the execution of lilypond and give Frescobaldi
> time to do whatever it might do -- and then continue lilypond from the
> debugger?
>
> Have you tried changing the Frescobaldi options for displaying the pdf to
> get to a minimal Frescobaldi run that doesn't do much but generate the pdf?
>
> This sounds like a truly bizarre bug.
>
>
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