Clef change and measure length

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Clef change and measure length

foxfanfare
Hi all,

I think this is a bug: when a clef change appears after a full measure rest,
the rest is no longer centered properly in the measure. The result looks
weird. See that example:

\version "2.19.82"

\new Staff
\relative c' {
  c1
  R-"default"
  \bar "||"
  R_"not centered"
  \clef bass
  \once \override MultiMeasureRest.X-offset = #1
  R-"tweaked"
  \clef treble
  c
}

What do you think?

clefchange.ly
<http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/file/t5604/clefchange.ly>  
clefchange.pdf
<http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/file/t5604/clefchange.pdf>  




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Re: Clef change and measure length

Malte Meyn-3


Am 26.10.19 um 10:40 schrieb foxfanfare:

> Hi all,
>
> I think this is a bug: when a clef change appears after a full measure rest,
> the rest is no longer centered properly in the measure. The result looks
> weird. See that example:
>
> \version "2.19.82"
>
> \new Staff
> \relative c' {
>    c1
>    R-"default"
>    \bar "||"
>    R_"not centered"
>    \clef bass
>    \once \override MultiMeasureRest.X-offset = #1
>    R-"tweaked"
>    \clef treble
>    c
> }
>
> What do you think?

I think that it depends on context: In a full score where only one
instrument has a clef change, it would look weird if all the other
instruments have the rest not centered. But in solo music, I’m not so
sure which one I would prefer.

According to Gould LilyPond’s behaviour is correct, but she doesn’t say
anything about full scores …

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Re: Clef change and measure length

Thomas Morley-2
In reply to this post by foxfanfare
Am Sa., 26. Okt. 2019 um 10:30 Uhr schrieb foxfanfare <[hidden email]>:

>
> Hi all,
>
> I think this is a bug: when a clef change appears after a full measure rest,
> the rest is no longer centered properly in the measure. The result looks
> weird. See that example:
>
> \version "2.19.82"
>
> \new Staff
> \relative c' {
>   c1
>   R-"default"
>   \bar "||"
>   R_"not centered"
>   \clef bass
>   \once \override MultiMeasureRest.X-offset = #1
>   R-"tweaked"
>   \clef treble
>   c
> }
>
> What do you think?
>
> clefchange.ly
> <http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/file/t5604/clefchange.ly>
> clefchange.pdf
> <http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/file/t5604/clefchange.pdf>

Well, while centering a MMR the question is "center between which items?"
Default LilyPond centers between left and right break-alignment.
That's what's done and what you see.
So no bug, but intended.

Nevertheless you can change this behaviour by applying
[\once]
\override MultiMeasureRest.spacing-pair = #'(staff-bar . staff-bar)
as stated in the IR.


Cheers,
  Harm

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Re: Clef change and measure length

foxfanfare
In reply to this post by Malte Meyn-3
Malte Meyn-3 wrote
> I think that it depends on context: In a full score where only one
> instrument has a clef change, it would look weird if all the other
> instruments have the rest not centered. But in solo music, I’m not so
> sure which one I would prefer.
>
> According to Gould LilyPond’s behaviour is correct, but she doesn’t say
> anything about full scores …

Thanks for your replies. Where did you find this reference in Gould's book?
I was looking for that before writing my initial post but without success.
On the contrary, I found this example which suggests otherwise (see the
second one):
mmr.jpg <http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/file/t5604/mmr.jpg>  

I also rember writing orchestral music and I found always strange when
several MMR where not centered in their measure because only one instrument
had a clef change... Or maybe I don't get your point.


Thomas Morley-2 wrote
> Nevertheless you can change this behaviour by applying
> [\once]
> \override MultiMeasureRest.spacing-pair = #'(staff-bar . staff-bar)
> as stated in the IR.

That's good to know, thank you very much.



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Re: Clef change and measure length

Malte Meyn-3


Am 27.10.19 um 17:30 schrieb foxfanfare:
> Thanks for your replies. Where did you find this reference in Gould's book?
> I was looking for that before writing my initial post but without success.
> On the contrary, I found this example which suggests otherwise (see the
> second one):
> mmr.jpg<http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/file/t5604/mmr.jpg>  

That example is the same in the german translation. But at p. 172
(“Horizontale Ausrichtung von Pausen → Ganztaktige Pausen”, i. e.
“Horizontal positioning of rests → full measure rests”) she writes
something like “If the rest measure contains a clef, key signature or
time signature, one has to center the rest in the remaining space”, see
attachment.

So Gould is inconsistent here ;)

> I also rember writing orchestral music and I found always strange when
> several MMR where not centered in their measure because only one instrument
> had a clef change... Or maybe I don't get your point.

Yes, that’s what I find strange too.

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gould_full_measure_rest_position.png (51K) Download Attachment
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Re: Clef change and measure length

foxfanfare
Malte Meyn-3 wrote
> That example is the same in the german translation. But at p. 172
> (“Horizontale Ausrichtung von Pausen → Ganztaktige Pausen”, i. e.
> “Horizontal positioning of rests → full measure rests”) she writes
> something like “If the rest measure contains a clef, key signature or
> time signature, one has to center the rest in the remaining space”, see
> attachment.
>
> So Gould is inconsistent here ;)

Yes I see :) Well it's p.160 in the english version. In my opinion, this
rule only applies when you write with a single staff, that's all. I
understand why LP has been configured that way and your right, it's not a
bug. But I'll have to remember correcting that each time I write for several
musicians or at least with 2-staves instruments!

It seems to me to be an engraving issue, especially when you write
orchestral music. Don't you think it would be a good idea to put the
demonstration with \override MultiMeasureRest.spacing-pair = #'(staff-bar .
staff-bar) in the documentation after
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/writing-rests#full-measure-rests 
?





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