Clarification of 'font' usage to use Gonville over Feta

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Clarification of 'font' usage to use Gonville over Feta

pkx166h-2
Hello,

I hope this is the right list to ask this question on.

I am currently helping Graham with Doc edits and am looking at adding into
them somewhere the instructions for Windows/Mac OS and *NIX for the music font
Gonville (for those that don't know
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/gonville/ )

The instructions to use this replacement for the feta font are simple (if
rudimentary), but what I wanted to check is that as of 2.13.x there still is
not a simple function along the lines of what is documented in the Notation
Reference

Such as #'(font.name... or #(font.family... and that the examples given to
replace font.family is really only for non-musical-glyph fonts?

This just saves me from describing an unnecessary procedure if it is simply
pointing to a new place or new directory for the gonville music font.

I hope that does make sense.

Thanks for your time.

James



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Re: Clarification of 'font' usage to use Gonville over Feta

Simon Tatham
James <[hidden email]> wrote:
[Gonville]
> The instructions to use this replacement for the feta font are simple (if
> rudimentary), but what I wanted to check is that as of 2.13.x there still is
> not a simple function along the lines of what is documented in the Notation
> Reference
>
> Such as #'(font.name... or #(font.family... and that the examples given to
> replace font.family is really only for non-musical-glyph fonts?

2.13.x does include a sensible means of switching music fonts. It
should be possible to install Gonville _alongside_ Feta in the same
LILYPOND_DATADIR and switch between them using a Lilypond
configuration directive, instead of my original hacky approach of
preparing a replacement LILYPOND_DATADIR in which Gonville
masquerades as Feta.

The last time I tried it (using the technique described in the
comments in input/regression/gonville.ly), I found everything
changed except for the time signature digits (and possibly the
dynamics). That should be the easy bit to fix (since those could
already be changed using existing Lilypond configuration), but I've
been a bit busy with other things and haven't got round to trying
harder. That's mainly why I haven't updated the web page. Sorry
about that.

Cheers,
Simon
--
Simon Tatham         "The distinction between the enlightened and the
<[hidden email]>    terminally confused is only apparent to the latter."


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Re: Clarification of 'font' usage to use Gonville over Feta

Han-Wen Nienhuys-3
In reply to this post by pkx166h-2
[on a tangent]

I went over to the gonville page, and I like the way it looks, and
have to concur that we made Feta (perhaps overly) ornate.

Just a small comment on the flags: I think gonville could be improved
by making the final flag 16th (both up and down) and higher note
values slightly smaller.  Since the last flag has no following flag to
counter balance it, it looks a bit out of proportion.


On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 12:38 PM, James <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I hope this is the right list to ask this question on.
>
> I am currently helping Graham with Doc edits and am looking at adding into
> them somewhere the instructions for Windows/Mac OS and *NIX for the music font
> Gonville (for those that don't know
> http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/gonville/ )
>
> The instructions to use this replacement for the feta font are simple (if
> rudimentary), but what I wanted to check is that as of 2.13.x there still is
> not a simple function along the lines of what is documented in the Notation
> Reference
>
> Such as #'(font.name... or #(font.family... and that the examples given to
> replace font.family is really only for non-musical-glyph fonts?
>
> This just saves me from describing an unnecessary procedure if it is simply
> pointing to a new place or new directory for the gonville music font.
>
> I hope that does make sense.
>
> Thanks for your time.
>
> James
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> lilypond-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
>



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Re: Clarification of 'font' usage to use Gonville over Feta

Simon Tatham
Han-Wen Nienhuys <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I went over to the gonville page, and I like the way it looks, and
> have to concur that we made Feta (perhaps overly) ornate.
>
> Just a small comment on the flags: I think gonville could be improved
> by making the final flag 16th (both up and down) and higher note
> values slightly smaller.  Since the last flag has no following flag to
> counter balance it, it looks a bit out of proportion.

Thank you for the comment! Yes, I think there was mild criticism of
the flags when I initially mentioned Gonville on this list; I
regrettably haven't got round to looking at them again, but I still
mean to...

Meanwhile, I've just had another go at making Lilypond (2.13.14)
work with Gonville, with a view to updating the Gonville web page to
supersede my current hacky installation instructions. I was able to
get most of the musical glyphs to appear in Gonville, but I haven't
worked out how to get the ASCII parts of the font - the time
signature and dynamics letters - to switch over as seamlessly.

I attach my test input files. 'test.ly' is the starting point,
before I do anything to the font configuration; 'testg.ly' is
transformed as specified in input/regression/gonville.ly (and I also
followed the download instructions also given in that file), which
has the effect of substituting Gonville for the Feta glyphs in the
music itself, but the time signature and dynamics are still in Feta.

The best I've managed to do for those (in testg2.ly) is to add

      \override Staff.TimeSignature #'font-name = #"Gonville"
      \override Staff.TimeSignature #'font-size = #5
      \override DynamicText #'font-name = #"Gonville"
      \override DynamicText #'font-size = #5

in the staff section; that generates a PS output file with Gonville
everywhere I expect it, but only at _approximately_ the right size,
and my guess is that it's hopelessly wrong as a general mechanism
since it won't automatically adapt if the staff size is
reconfigured. (Plus, of course, I apparently have to specify it
separately for every staff if I do it this way.)

Is there a more sensible piece of configuration language I should be
using for this part of the job? I wasn't able to find anything in
the docs, I'm afraid.

Cheers,
Simon
--
Simon Tatham         What do we want?        ROT13!
<[hidden email]>   When do we want it?     ABJ!

% trivial hello-world score making use of time signature digits and
% dynamics letters

\version "2.13.14"

\header { title = "Testing 1 2 3" }

\score {
  \new Staff {
    \clef treble
    \time 3/4
    a'4 \mp b' c'' d'' e''1 \ff
  }
}

% test.ly, but trying to use Gonville

\version "2.13.14"

\paper {
  #(add-music-fonts fonts "gonville" 'gonville (/ staff-height (* 20 pt)))
}

\header { title = "Testing 1 2 3" }

\score {
  \new Staff {
    \clef treble
    \time 3/4
    a'4 \mp b' c'' d'' e''1 \ff
  }
  \layout {
    #(define font-defaults
       '((font-family . gonville) (font-encoding . fetaMusic)))
  }
}

% testg.ly, but trying to use Gonville for time signature and
% dynamics too

\version "2.13.14"

\paper {
  #(add-music-fonts fonts "gonville" 'gonville (/ staff-height (* 20 pt)))
}

\header { title = "Testing 1 2 3" }

\score {
  \new Staff {
    \clef treble
    \override Staff.TimeSignature #'font-name = #"Gonville"
    \override Staff.TimeSignature #'font-size = #5
    \override DynamicText #'font-name = #"Gonville"
    \override DynamicText #'font-size = #5
    \time 3/4
    a'4 \mp b' c'' d'' e''1 \ff
  }
  \layout {
    #(define font-defaults
       '((font-family . gonville) (font-encoding . fetaMusic)))
  }
}

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Re: Clarification of 'font' usage to use Gonville over Feta

Han-Wen Nienhuys-3
On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 6:47 PM, Simon Tatham <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> I went over to the gonville page, and I like the way it looks, and
>> have to concur that we made Feta (perhaps overly) ornate.
>>
>> Just a small comment on the flags: I think gonville could be improved
>> by making the final flag 16th (both up and down) and higher note
>> values slightly smaller.  Since the last flag has no following flag to
>> counter balance it, it looks a bit out of proportion.
>
> Thank you for the comment! Yes, I think there was mild criticism of
> the flags when I initially mentioned Gonville on this list; I
> regrettably haven't got round to looking at them again, but I still
> mean to...
>
> Meanwhile, I've just had another go at making Lilypond (2.13.14)
> work with Gonville, with a view to updating the Gonville web page to
> supersede my current hacky installation instructions. I was able to
> get most of the musical glyphs to appear in Gonville, but I haven't
> worked out how to get the ASCII parts of the font - the time
> signature and dynamics letters - to switch over as seamlessly.
>
> I attach my test input files. 'test.ly' is the starting point,
> before I do anything to the font configuration; 'testg.ly' is

[..]

Let me try to see if I can hack up something that is less hacky.


--
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Re: Clarification of 'font' usage to use Gonville over Feta

pnorcks
On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 4:49 PM, Han-Wen Nienhuys <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 6:47 PM, Simon Tatham <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> I went over to the gonville page, and I like the way it looks, and
>>> have to concur that we made Feta (perhaps overly) ornate.
>>>
>>> Just a small comment on the flags: I think gonville could be improved
>>> by making the final flag 16th (both up and down) and higher note
>>> values slightly smaller.  Since the last flag has no following flag to
>>> counter balance it, it looks a bit out of proportion.
>>
>> Thank you for the comment! Yes, I think there was mild criticism of
>> the flags when I initially mentioned Gonville on this list; I
>> regrettably haven't got round to looking at them again, but I still
>> mean to...
>>
>> Meanwhile, I've just had another go at making Lilypond (2.13.14)
>> work with Gonville, with a view to updating the Gonville web page to
>> supersede my current hacky installation instructions. I was able to
>> get most of the musical glyphs to appear in Gonville, but I haven't
>> worked out how to get the ASCII parts of the font - the time
>> signature and dynamics letters - to switch over as seamlessly.
>>
>> I attach my test input files. 'test.ly' is the starting point,
>> before I do anything to the font configuration; 'testg.ly' is
>
> [..]
>
> Let me try to see if I can hack up something that is less hacky.

If I am understanding correctly, the problem is that no workaround for
loading Gonville was added to scm/font.scm (search for
feta-alphabet-size-vector).

I also added a tracker issue for this problem a few days ago:

http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1021

-Patrick


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Re: Clarification of 'font' usage to use Gonville over Feta

Han-Wen Nienhuys-3
In reply to this post by Simon Tatham
Hello Simon,

see

  http://codereview.appspot.com/246041

for an even less hacky install.

As you note, the alphabet remains tricky.  The current method of
loading the alphabet fonts is rather hacky (for the text fonts, we use
the PFB version rather than the OTF one), so we should first fix that
before trying to make other fonts work properly.

On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 6:47 PM, Simon Tatham <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Thank you for the comment! Yes, I think there was mild criticism of
> the flags when I initially mentioned Gonville on this list; I
> regrettably haven't got round to looking at them again, but I still
> mean to...

I had a brief look at the doc of how the fonts are created. You may
want to look into learning  MetaFont - it matches pretty well how you
created the fonts, and AFAICS it should be easy to convert Gonville to
MF; it could then be distributed with lilypond. Perhaps Werner (our
font guru) could help?

--
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Re: Clarification of 'font' usage to use Gonville over Feta

Han-Wen Nienhuys-3
In reply to this post by pnorcks
On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 10:40 PM, Patrick McCarty <[hidden email]> wrote:
> If I am understanding correctly, the problem is that no workaround for
> loading Gonville was added to scm/font.scm (search for
> feta-alphabet-size-vector).
>
> I also added a tracker issue for this problem a few days ago:

Hi Patrick,

can you have a look at

 http://codereview.appspot.com/248041

I'll add some code next to make unify the two desgn size lists, which
should make it easier for Gonville to be used for text too.

--
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Re: Clarification of 'font' usage to use Gonville over Feta

Han-Wen Nienhuys-3
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 2:43 AM, Han-Wen Nienhuys <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 10:40 PM, Patrick McCarty <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> If I am understanding correctly, the problem is that no workaround for
>> loading Gonville was added to scm/font.scm (search for
>> feta-alphabet-size-vector).
>>
>> I also added a tracker issue for this problem a few days ago:
>
> Hi Patrick,
>
> can you have a look at
>
>  http://codereview.appspot.com/248041
>
> I'll add some code next to make unify the two desgn size lists, which
> should make it easier for Gonville to be used for text too.

Ignore this actually, I was being naive.   I think the proper solution
is to put the design size in the font name, but that will be some more
work still.

--
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Re: Clarification of 'font' usage to use Gonville over Feta

Han-Wen Nienhuys-3
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 2:47 AM, Han-Wen Nienhuys <[hidden email]> wrote:

>>> I also added a tracker issue for this problem a few days ago:
>>
>> Hi Patrick,
>>
>> can you have a look at
>>
>>  http://codereview.appspot.com/248041
>>
>> I'll add some code next to make unify the two desgn size lists, which
>> should make it easier for Gonville to be used for text too.
>
> Ignore this actually, I was being naive.   I think the proper solution
> is to put the design size in the font name, but that will be some more
> work still.

fixed now.


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Re: Clarification of 'font' usage to use Gonville over Feta

Werner LEMBERG
In reply to this post by Han-Wen Nienhuys-3

> see
>
>   http://codereview.appspot.com/246041
>
> for an even less hacky install.

Very nice.  The renaming is a good thing IMHO.

> I had a brief look at the doc of how the fonts are created. You may
> want to look into learning MetaFont - it matches pretty well how you
> created the fonts, and AFAICS it should be easy to convert Gonville
> to MF; it could then be distributed with lilypond.  Perhaps Werner
> (our font guru) could help?

I see two approaches: Do a *real* conversion, this is, write font
programs so that you can benefit from the mathematical capabilities of
MetaFont, or do a *mechanical* one by using a script which adds bells
and whistles where necessary.  Both methods have advantages and
disadvantages: The former is probably quite time consuming, while the
latter essentially doesn't allow for fine tuning on the MetaFont side.

However, doing a mechanical conversion (which essentially creates a
bunch of points scattered in the coordinate plane), then starting to
adjust the points manually in the MetaFont code is something I would
really like to avoid...


    Werner


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