BUG: Lilypond forgets to draw barline spanner after \bar ""

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BUG: Lilypond forgets to draw barline spanner after \bar ""

Knut Petersen
Hi everybody!

As far as I understand after \bar "" a \break is permitted in the middle of a bar.
Lilypond is supposed to engrave the next barline at the proper place.

At the marked places ( FIXME/ BUG) in the attached score lilypond needs to be
forced to print a barline ... I think this is a bug, although it's also possible that I
missed something in the docs.

cu,
  Knut

P.S. The score  is WIP, a lot of tuning (beams, ties, slurs, etc) is missing

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Re: BUG: Lilypond forgets to draw barline spanner after \bar ""

Simon Albrecht-2
On 19.09.2016 14:17, Knut Petersen wrote:

> Hi everybody!
>
> As far as I understand after \bar "" a \break is permitted in the
> middle of a bar.
> Lilypond is supposed to engrave the next barline at the proper place.
>
> At the marked places ( FIXME/ BUG) in the attached score lilypond
> needs to be
> forced to print a barline ... I think this is a bug, although it's
> also possible that I
> missed something in the docs.

Sorry, Knut, but this is a totally inacceptable report. It’s not clear
what you want, and you come up with an example of 300+ lines of code.
(Re)read <http://lilypond.org/tiny-examples.html>. For bug reports,
minimal examples are strictly required.
Also, we have a dedicated bug list <mailto:[hidden email]>. Please
repost there.

Best, Simon

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Re: BUG: Lilypond forgets to draw barline spanner after \bar ""

antlists
On 19/09/16 13:29, Simon Albrecht wrote:

> On 19.09.2016 14:17, Knut Petersen wrote:
>> Hi everybody!
>>
>> As far as I understand after \bar "" a \break is permitted in the
>> middle of a bar.
>> Lilypond is supposed to engrave the next barline at the proper place.
>>
>> At the marked places ( FIXME/ BUG) in the attached score lilypond
>> needs to be
>> forced to print a barline ... I think this is a bug, although it's
>> also possible that I
>> missed something in the docs.
>
> Sorry, Knut, but this is a totally inacceptable report. It’s not clear
> what you want,

Sorry Simon, but I think it is *extremely* clear what his problem is.
Let me give you a minimal example ...

c2 \bar "" \break c2 c4

That should be two bars with a barline in the middle. And Knut is not
getting that middle barline. THAT is what is wrong with the output.

 and you come up with an example of 300+ lines of code.
> (Re)read <http://lilypond.org/tiny-examples.html>. For bug reports,
> minimal examples are strictly required.
> Also, we have a dedicated bug list <mailto:[hidden email]>. Please
> repost there.

I'm not a betting man, but it would not surprise me in the slightest if
my minimal example works correctly. That's down to Knut to test :-)

But Knut said it was WIP, and I've had plenty of trouble where fixing an
(apparently) unrelated problem has fixed weirdos.

So, Knut, check whether my minimal example works, fix the warnings in
your WIP, and see if the problem goes away. It's my guess it's actually
something else interfering.
>
> Best, Simon
>
Cheers,
Wol


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Re: BUG: Lilypond forgets to draw barline spanner after \bar ""

benko.pal
> c2 \bar "" \break c2 c4
>
> That should be two bars with a barline in the middle.

I think not; \bar "" starts a new bar (after issuing a warning for the
incomplete bar).

p
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Re: BUG: Lilypond forgets to draw barline spanner after \bar ""

antlists
On 19/09/16 16:39, Benkő Pál wrote:
>> c2 \bar "" \break c2 c4
>>
>> That should be two bars with a barline in the middle.
>
> I think not; \bar "" starts a new bar (after issuing a warning for the
> incomplete bar).
>
Ummm ... but if that's the case, that's his problem.

HOWEVER. Has lily's behaviour changed? It's always (iirc) been the case
that if you want to break a line of music in the middle of a bar, you
have to put a blank barline in. You can (or could) only break on a
barline. I don't remember it ever being documented that it actually
starts a new bar!

If you want the behaviour you describe it's easy - just put a space rest
in. If you want the behaviour I describe, how are you supposed to get
it? (I suppose you could again put a spacer rest in :-)

But as I remember it, \bar doesn't actually mess about with the timing,
precisely because a lot of music doesn't have timings and still wants
(random :-) barlines.

Cheers,
Wol

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Re: BUG: Lilypond forgets to draw barline spanner after \bar ""

Mark Knoop-4
In reply to this post by benko.pal
At 17:39 on 19 Sep 2016, Benkő Pál wrote:
>> c2 \bar "" \break c2 c4
>>
>> That should be two bars with a barline in the middle.  
>
>I think not; \bar "" starts a new bar (after issuing a warning for the
>incomplete bar).

Is it really so hard to test something before sending an email
asserting things with great confidence? Or RTFM?

--
Mark Knoop

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Re: BUG: Lilypond forgets to draw barline spanner after \bar ""

David Kastrup
In reply to this post by benko.pal
Benkő Pál <[hidden email]> writes:

>> c2 \bar "" \break c2 c4
>>
>> That should be two bars with a barline in the middle.
>
> I think not; \bar "" starts a new bar (after issuing a warning for the
> incomplete bar).

Seriously, does anybody these days bother testing stuff before making
statements?  First this minimal example is missing braces around it.
And second, \bar "" does not start a new bar and does not issue a
warning.

--
David Kastrup

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Re: BUG: Lilypond forgets to draw barline spanner after \bar ""

benko.pal
sorry for the noise.

2016. szept. 19. 18:46 ezt írta ("David Kastrup" <[hidden email]>):

> Benkő Pál <[hidden email]> writes:
>
> >> c2 \bar "" \break c2 c4
> >>
> >> That should be two bars with a barline in the middle.
> >
> > I think not; \bar "" starts a new bar (after issuing a warning for the
> > incomplete bar).
>
> Seriously, does anybody these days bother testing stuff before making
> statements?  First this minimal example is missing braces around it.
> And second, \bar "" does not start a new bar and does not issue a
> warning.
>
> --
> David Kastrup
>
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Re: BUG: Lilypond forgets to draw barline spanner after \bar ""

Thomas Morley-2
In reply to this post by Knut Petersen
2016-09-19 14:17 GMT+02:00 Knut Petersen <[hidden email]>:

> Hi everybody!
>
> As far as I understand after \bar "" a \break is permitted in the middle of
> a bar.
> Lilypond is supposed to engrave the next barline at the proper place.
>
> At the marked places ( FIXME/ BUG) in the attached score lilypond needs to
> be
> forced to print a barline ... I think this is a bug, although it's also
> possible that I
> missed something in the docs.
>
> cu,
>  Knut


Hi Knut,

as others said already, a minimal would have been nice.
I've difficulties to understand what you're after. Moving
"Default_bar_line_engraver" obfuscates it even more...

_But_ if I understand correctly, then:
you miss the SpanBar while using \bar "".
This is no bug, but intended behaviour.
In bar-line.scm you'll find
(define-bar-line "" "" "" #f)
The last value there, #f, means; print _no_ SpanBar.

You could try to use
#(define-bar-line "-bis" "-bis" "" "|")
instead.

Cheers,
  Harm

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Re: BUG: Lilypond forgets to draw barline spanner after \bar ""

Simon Albrecht-2
In reply to this post by antlists
On 19.09.2016 17:12, Wols Lists wrote:

> On 19/09/16 13:29, Simon Albrecht wrote:
>> On 19.09.2016 14:17, Knut Petersen wrote:
>>> Hi everybody!
>>>
>>> As far as I understand after \bar "" a \break is permitted in the
>>> middle of a bar.
>>> Lilypond is supposed to engrave the next barline at the proper place.
>>>
>>> At the marked places ( FIXME/ BUG) in the attached score lilypond
>>> needs to be
>>> forced to print a barline ... I think this is a bug, although it's
>>> also possible that I
>>> missed something in the docs.
>>
>> Sorry, Knut, but this is a totally inacceptable report. It’s not clear
>> what you want,
> Sorry Simon, but I think it is*extremely*  clear what his problem is.
> Let me give you a minimal example ...
>
> c2 \bar "" \break c2 c4
>
> That should be two bars with a barline in the middle. And Knut is not
> getting that middle barline. THAT is what is wrong with the output.

A minimal example still needs to be complete and compilable. I can’t
think of any time signature where
c2 \bar "" \break c2 c4
would give you a total of ‘two bars with a barline in the middle’. It
amounts to five quarter notes’ duration – how’s that supposed to have a
barline ‘in the middle’?

Best, Simon

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Re: BUG: Lilypond forgets to draw barline spanner after \bar ""

antlists
On 20/09/16 10:58, Simon Albrecht wrote:

> On 19.09.2016 17:12, Wols Lists wrote:
>> On 19/09/16 13:29, Simon Albrecht wrote:
>>> On 19.09.2016 14:17, Knut Petersen wrote:
>>>> Hi everybody!
>>>>
>>>> As far as I understand after \bar "" a \break is permitted in the
>>>> middle of a bar.
>>>> Lilypond is supposed to engrave the next barline at the proper place.
>>>>
>>>> At the marked places ( FIXME/ BUG) in the attached score lilypond
>>>> needs to be
>>>> forced to print a barline ... I think this is a bug, although it's
>>>> also possible that I
>>>> missed something in the docs.
>>>
>>> Sorry, Knut, but this is a totally inacceptable report. It’s not clear
>>> what you want,
>> Sorry Simon, but I think it is*extremely*  clear what his problem is.
>> Let me give you a minimal example ...
>>
>> c2 \bar "" \break c2 c4
>>
>> That should be two bars with a barline in the middle. And Knut is not
>> getting that middle barline. THAT is what is wrong with the output.
>
> A minimal example still needs to be complete and compilable. I can’t
> think of any time signature where
> c2 \bar "" \break c2 c4
> would give you a total of ‘two bars with a barline in the middle’. It
> amounts to five quarter notes’ duration – how’s that supposed to have a
> barline ‘in the middle’?

OUCH! It was meant to be c1, not c4. oops!

(But still, at default 4/4, there should still be a barline in the
middle of it somewhere :-) My money's still on a bug elsewhere in the
.ly document suppressing it, though)
>
> Best, Simon
>
>
Cheers,
Wol

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Re: BUG: Lilypond forgets to draw barline spanner after \bar ""

Knut Petersen
In reply to this post by Simon Albrecht-2
Am 19.09.2016 um 14:29 schrieb Simon Albrecht:
> Sorry, Knut, but this is a totally inacceptable report. It’s not clear what you want, and you come up with an example of 300+ lines of code.

There are times where you cannot see the wood for the trees. I posted the original mail because
I was unable to get the expected behaviour after a _long_ time of searching for an error in my code.
All that led me to the assumtion that some side effect of the weird Score layout that is necessary to
force instruct lilypond exposed a bug, so a short MWE was not a real option.

Now, after looking at the code again for a long time, I see that I simply forgot a "time 3/4" in the hidden
(lower) staff of the staffgroup. That caused the bars to be out of sync and so no barline spanner was
drawn. lilypond was right, and I was wrong. No bug, too simple :-(

I made a fool of myself, sorry for the noise and thank you to all those who had a look at the file.

Cheers,
  Knut


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Re: BUG: Lilypond forgets to draw barline spanner after \bar ""

Knut Petersen
In reply to this post by Simon Albrecht-2
Am 19.09.2016 um 14:29 schrieb Simon Albrecht:
> Sorry, Knut, but this is a totally inacceptable report. It’s not clear what you want, and you come up with an example of 300+ lines of code.

There are times where you cannot see the wood for the trees. I posted the original mail because
I was unable to get the expected behaviour after a _long_ time of searching for an error in my code.
All that led me to the assumtion that some side effect of the weird Score layout that is necessary to
force mensuration lines in a polyrhythmic context exposed a bug, so a short MWE was not a real option.

Now, after looking at the code again for a long time, I see that I simply forgot a "time 3/4" in the hidden
(lower) staff of the staffgroup. That caused the bars to be out of sync and so no barline spanner was
drawn. lilypond was right, and I was wrong. No bug, too simple :-(

I made a fool of myself, sorry for the noise and thank you to all those who had a look at the file.

Cheers,
   Knut


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Re: BUG: Lilypond forgets to draw barline spanner after \bar ""

David Kastrup
In reply to this post by Knut Petersen
Knut Petersen <[hidden email]> writes:

> Am 19.09.2016 um 14:29 schrieb Simon Albrecht:
>> Sorry, Knut, but this is a totally inacceptable report. It’s not
>> clear what you want, and you come up with an example of 300+ lines
>> of code.
>
> There are times where you cannot see the wood for the trees. I posted
> the original mail because
> I was unable to get the expected behaviour after a _long_ time of
> searching for an error in my code.
> All that led me to the assumtion that some side effect of the weird
> Score layout that is necessary to
> force instruct lilypond exposed a bug, so a short MWE was not a real option.
>
> Now, after looking at the code again for a long time, I see that I
> simply forgot a "time 3/4" in the hidden
> (lower) staff of the staffgroup. That caused the bars to be out of
> sync and so no barline spanner was
> drawn. lilypond was right, and I was wrong. No bug, too simple :-(

The showstopper was that your description was quite too vague to figure
out what you were expecting and what you were getting instead.  So it
was a case of people not being able to help even _after_ investing time,
because it became necessary not to figure out the _cause_ of the problem
but rather figuring out what the problem was supposed to be in the first
place.

The only thing more frustrating than spending more time than necessary
on solving somebody else's problem is spending more time than necessary
on not even starting to solve somebody else's problem.

It's like playing soccer on a really bad field and afterwards figure
from the score board that you accidentally gatecrashed the synchronized
diving competition.

--
David Kastrup

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