# Acciaccatura distoring spacing

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## Acciaccatura distoring spacing

 %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% \version "2.19.82" \paper { line-width = 150\mm } #(set-global-staff-size 16) <<   {     \new Staff \time 5/4     r2 \tuplet 7/4 { g'16 a' b' c'' d'' e'' f'' } g''8 r r4 |   }   {     \new Staff     \tuplet 3/2 4 { \repeat unfold 3 { r8 \repeat unfold 3 { \acciaccatura a'' g'' } }                       r8 \repeat unfold 2 { \acciaccatura a''8 g'' } } |   } >> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% When the above is compiled, there is an unwanted gap between the 3rd and 4th septuplets in the upper staff.  This undoubtedly has something to do with the acciaccatura in the other staff. (There are 10 other staves in the original passage this is taken from, some of which also have triplet quavers but not acciaccature.  Removing the one line with the grace-notes gives an evenly spaced septuplet.) Is there any way of getting the septuplet evenly spaced? David _______________________________________________ lilypond-user mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
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## Re: Acciaccatura distoring spacing

 I sent the message quoted below to the list last week.  I received no replies, the principal reason for which is, I suspect, that there is currently no solution to the problem. I have encountered this sort of difficulty before.  Lilypond arranges notes so that those that occur later in time on any staff in a system are always farther to the right that those that are earlier.  This, of course, is usually what one wishes to happen. The problem I encountered presumably results from the fact that acciaccature are deemed to take no time at all.  (This is how they are treated in notation theory although of course in reality they must take a finite amount of time, at least with non-polyphonic instruments.) Here is a shorter snippet which illustrates the problem: %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% \version "2.19.82" \paper { line-width = 65\mm } <<   {     \new Staff \time 2/4     \tuplet 7/4 { g'16 a' b' c'' d'' e'' f'' } g''8 r   }   {     \new Staff     \tuplet 3/2 4 { g''8 \acciaccatura a'' g'' g'' } g'' r   } >> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% In theory the second note of the lower staff's triplet comes 1/3 of the way through the 3rd note of the septuplet on the upper staff.  In practice, nobody cares at all about that: performers wouldn't even give it a passing thought except perhaps in an extremely slow tempo.  But because Lilypond deems that the acciaccatura occurs at the same time as the "main" note that follows it, it insists on a gap between the 3rd and 4th notes of the septuplet which is at least as big as the printed distance between the grace note and the main note. This is clearly not what one expects to see in a well laid-out score. We would probably want other staves which have triplets to line up with the triplet in the lower staff here, but the notes of the septuplet should be evenly spaced over its total width. What would be useful in these rare cases would be the ability to have spacing calculated separately for different groups of staves.  In the example, just for this one beat we need to tell Lilypond to work out the spacing for all the staves apart from the one with the septuplet, and separately to work out the spacing for the septuplet as if it were part of a different score.  This would obviously have to be done at least twice, because ultimately the total width of the 2 spacing versions must be the same (probably the triplet's width would have to be increased somewhat to match the septuplet's).  After this troublesome section of a single beat's length, the whole score would then be treated as a single entity for timing purposes as usual. In the mean time, does anyone know of a way of getting the septuplet to look right? David On Wed, 2019-05-15 at 16:45 +0100, David Sumbler wrote: > %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > \version "2.19.82" > > \paper { line-width = 150\mm } > #(set-global-staff-size 16) > << >   { >     \new Staff \time 5/4 >     r2 \tuplet 7/4 { g'16 a' b' c'' d'' e'' f'' } g''8 r r4 | >   } >   { >     \new Staff >     \tuplet 3/2 4 { >       \repeat unfold 3 { >         r8 \repeat unfold 3 { \acciaccatura a'' g'' } } >       r8 \repeat unfold 2 { \acciaccatura a''8 g'' } } > >> } > %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > > When the above is compiled, there is an unwanted gap between the 3rd > and 4th septuplets in the upper staff.  This undoubtedly has > something > to do with the acciaccatura in the other staff. > > (There are 10 other staves in the original passage this is taken > from, > some of which also have triplet quavers but not > acciaccature.  Removing > the one line with the grace-notes gives an evenly spaced septuplet.) > > Is there any way of getting the septuplet evenly spaced? _______________________________________________ lilypond-user mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
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## Re: Acciaccatura distoring spacing

 Hi David,Ttake a look a this snippet:\version "2.19.82"\paper { line-width = 65\mm }<<  {    \new Staff \time 2/4    \newSpacingSection    \override Score.SpacingSpanner.strict-grace-spacing = ##t    \tuplet 7/4 { g'16 a' b' c'' d'' e'' f'' } g''8 r  }  {    \new Staff    \tuplet 3/2 4 { g''8 \acciaccatura a'' g'' g'' } g'' r  }>>Does this fix it for you? If it does, I encourage you to read the chapter on horizontal spacing of the Notation Reference, and then also look at the SpacingSpanner properties and interfaces in the Internals Reference.Hope that helps!Stéfano _______________________________________________ lilypond-user mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
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## Re: Acciaccatura distoring spacing

 Hi Stefano, I have now re-read the Horizontal Spacing section, and I am a bit wiser than I was. When I tried it, the fix you suggested worked perfectly for the snippet in my email.  But I had great difficulty when I applied it to my actual score: I kept getting numerous warnings:         programming error: Cannot determine neighbors for floating column.         continuing, cross fingers Also, depending where I began/ended the strict-grace-spacing, I sometimes had really bizarre results with a barline in completely the wrong place and actually passing through noteheads! After about 2 hours trying to isolate the cause, I found that it was due to the fact that my default include file itself includes poly-mark- engraver-ily.  I disabled this, and then recompiled the whole score (all 150 pages of it).  To my great relief I found that there were no problems: clearly I have not actually used the poly-mark facility in this score. Thank you very much for your help on this. David On Mon, 2019-05-20 at 12:45 -0300, Stefano Troncaro wrote: > Hi David, > > Ttake a look a this snippet: > > \version "2.19.82" > > \paper { line-width = 65\mm } > > << >   { >     \new Staff \time 2/4 >     \newSpacingSection >     \override Score.SpacingSpanner.strict-grace-spacing = ##t >     \tuplet 7/4 { g'16 a' b' c'' d'' e'' f'' } g''8 r >   } >   { >     \new Staff >     \tuplet 3/2 4 { g''8 \acciaccatura a'' g'' g'' } g'' r >   } > >> > > Does this fix it for you? If it does, I encourage you to read the > chapter on horizontal spacing of the Notation Reference, and then > also look at the SpacingSpanner properties and interfaces in the > Internals Reference. > > Hope that helps! > Stéfano _______________________________________________ lilypond-user mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
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## Re: Acciaccatura distoring spacing

 Oh I see, troubleshooting in big projects like what you describe can be so painful. Hopefully you figure out specifically what in your poly-mark-engraver.ily is conflicting with overriding the SpacingSpanner. Perhaps if you manage to isolate the problem and make a short example showing the bizarre results you described someone in this list will be able to figure out what is happening and how to fix the poly-mark-engraver.Anyways, I'm happy you solved it!El lun., 20 may. 2019 a las 18:01, David Sumbler (<[hidden email]>) escribió:Hi Stefano, I have now re-read the Horizontal Spacing section, and I am a bit wiser than I was. When I tried it, the fix you suggested worked perfectly for the snippet in my email.  But I had great difficulty when I applied it to my actual score: I kept getting numerous warnings:         programming error: Cannot determine neighbors for floating column.         continuing, cross fingers Also, depending where I began/ended the strict-grace-spacing, I sometimes had really bizarre results with a barline in completely the wrong place and actually passing through noteheads! After about 2 hours trying to isolate the cause, I found that it was due to the fact that my default include file itself includes poly-mark- engraver-ily.  I disabled this, and then recompiled the whole score (all 150 pages of it).  To my great relief I found that there were no problems: clearly I have not actually used the poly-mark facility in this score. Thank you very much for your help on this. David On Mon, 2019-05-20 at 12:45 -0300, Stefano Troncaro wrote: > Hi David, > > Ttake a look a this snippet: > > \version "2.19.82" > > \paper { line-width = 65\mm } > > << >   { >     \new Staff \time 2/4 >     \newSpacingSection >     \override Score.SpacingSpanner.strict-grace-spacing = ##t >     \tuplet 7/4 { g'16 a' b' c'' d'' e'' f'' } g''8 r >   } >   { >     \new Staff >     \tuplet 3/2 4 { g''8 \acciaccatura a'' g'' g'' } g'' r >   } > >> > > Does this fix it for you? If it does, I encourage you to read the > chapter on horizontal spacing of the Notation Reference, and then > also look at the SpacingSpanner properties and interfaces in the > Internals Reference. > > Hope that helps! > Stéfano _______________________________________________ lilypond-user mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
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## Re: Acciaccatura distoring spacing

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## Re: Acciaccatura distoring spacing

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## [Lilypond] How to add 12 bars of guitar strumming as Intro

 Aloha. I'm writing a song for guitar and vocal that has the structure below. I would like to add 12 bars of strumming guitar as an Intro but cannot figure out how to add it within the Staff since it doesn't have a melody, only strumming of the chords. I've been trying to figure out how to add this as a Voice (\Song.Voice.Intro) but can't seem to find the secret sauce or maybe that's the wrong approach? Mahalos. J. ************************* << \chords{ \theChords \theChords \theChords  } \new Staff {   \key a \minor   \new Voice = "intro"   { \Song.Voice.Intro  \break }   \new Voice = "verse"   { \Song.Voice.Verse  \bar "||" }   \new Voice = "chorus"  { \Song.Voice.Chorus \bar "||" }   \new Voice = "outro"   { \Song.Voice.Outro  \bar ":|." } } \new Lyrics \lyricsto "verse" { \Song.Lyrics.VerseI } \new Lyrics   <<   \lyricsto "verse"  { \Song.Lyrics.VerseII }   \lyricsto "chorus" { \Song.Lyrics.Chorus }   >> \new Lyrics  \lyricsto "verse" { \Song.Lyrics.VerseIII } \new Lyrics   <<   \lyricsto "verse" { \Song.Lyrics.VerseIV }   \lyricsto "chorus" { \Song.Lyrics.Chorus }   >> \new Lyrics  \lyricsto "verse"  { \Song.Lyrics.VerseV } \new Lyrics  \lyricsto "outro"  { \Song.Lyrics.Outro } >> ********************* -- ================================================ University of Hawaii, Maui College / Mobile 760.840.8660 _______________________________________________ lilypond-user mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
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## Re: Acciaccatura distoring spacing

 In reply to this post by Stefano Troncaro Hi All,Isn't this a well known bug in lilypond? Much discussion in the list archives. You need to add the spacer in the other voice.Andrew _______________________________________________ lilypond-user mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user