Acciaccatura distoring spacing

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Acciaccatura distoring spacing

David Sumbler
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
\version "2.19.82"

\paper { line-width = 150\mm }
#(set-global-staff-size 16)
<<
  {
    \new Staff \time 5/4
    r2 \tuplet 7/4 { g'16 a' b' c'' d'' e'' f'' } g''8 r r4 |
  }
  {
    \new Staff
    \tuplet 3/2 4 { \repeat unfold 3 { r8 \repeat unfold 3 {
\acciaccatura a'' g'' } }
                      r8 \repeat unfold 2 { \acciaccatura a''8 g'' } }
|
  }
>>
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

When the above is compiled, there is an unwanted gap between the 3rd
and 4th septuplets in the upper staff.  This undoubtedly has something
to do with the acciaccatura in the other staff.

(There are 10 other staves in the original passage this is taken from,
some of which also have triplet quavers but not acciaccature.  Removing
the one line with the grace-notes gives an evenly spaced septuplet.)

Is there any way of getting the septuplet evenly spaced?

David


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Re: Acciaccatura distoring spacing

David Sumbler
I sent the message quoted below to the list last week.  I received no
replies, the principal reason for which is, I suspect, that there is
currently no solution to the problem.

I have encountered this sort of difficulty before.  Lilypond arranges
notes so that those that occur later in time on any staff in a system
are always farther to the right that those that are earlier.  This, of
course, is usually what one wishes to happen.

The problem I encountered presumably results from the fact that
acciaccature are deemed to take no time at all.  (This is how they are
treated in notation theory although of course in reality they must take
a finite amount of time, at least with non-polyphonic instruments.)

Here is a shorter snippet which illustrates the problem:

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
\version "2.19.82"

\paper { line-width = 65\mm }

<<
  {
    \new Staff \time 2/4
    \tuplet 7/4 { g'16 a' b' c'' d'' e'' f'' } g''8 r
  }
  {
    \new Staff
    \tuplet 3/2 4 { g''8 \acciaccatura a'' g'' g'' } g'' r
  }
>>
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

In theory the second note of the lower staff's triplet comes 1/3 of the
way through the 3rd note of the septuplet on the upper staff.  In
practice, nobody cares at all about that: performers wouldn't even give
it a passing thought except perhaps in an extremely slow tempo.  But
because Lilypond deems that the acciaccatura occurs at the same time as
the "main" note that follows it, it insists on a gap between the 3rd
and 4th notes of the septuplet which is at least as big as the printed
distance between the grace note and the main note.

This is clearly not what one expects to see in a well laid-out score.
We would probably want other staves which have triplets to line up with
the triplet in the lower staff here, but the notes of the septuplet
should be evenly spaced over its total width.

What would be useful in these rare cases would be the ability to have
spacing calculated separately for different groups of staves.  In the
example, just for this one beat we need to tell Lilypond to work out
the spacing for all the staves apart from the one with the septuplet,
and separately to work out the spacing for the septuplet as if it were
part of a different score.  This would obviously have to be done at
least twice, because ultimately the total width of the 2 spacing
versions must be the same (probably the triplet's width would have to
be increased somewhat to match the septuplet's).  After this
troublesome section of a single beat's length, the whole score would
then be treated as a single entity for timing purposes as usual.

In the mean time, does anyone know of a way of getting the septuplet to
look right?

David


On Wed, 2019-05-15 at 16:45 +0100, David Sumbler wrote:

> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
> \version "2.19.82"
>
> \paper { line-width = 150\mm }
> #(set-global-staff-size 16)
> <<
>   {
>     \new Staff \time 5/4
>     r2 \tuplet 7/4 { g'16 a' b' c'' d'' e'' f'' } g''8 r r4 |
>   }
>   {
>     \new Staff
>     \tuplet 3/2 4 {
>       \repeat unfold 3 {
>         r8 \repeat unfold 3 { \acciaccatura a'' g'' } }
>       r8 \repeat unfold 2 { \acciaccatura a''8 g'' } }
> >> }
> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
>
> When the above is compiled, there is an unwanted gap between the 3rd
> and 4th septuplets in the upper staff.  This undoubtedly has
> something
> to do with the acciaccatura in the other staff.
>
> (There are 10 other staves in the original passage this is taken
> from,
> some of which also have triplet quavers but not
> acciaccature.  Removing
> the one line with the grace-notes gives an evenly spaced septuplet.)
>
> Is there any way of getting the septuplet evenly spaced?



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Re: Acciaccatura distoring spacing

Stefano Troncaro
Hi David,

Ttake a look a this snippet:

\version "2.19.82"

\paper { line-width = 65\mm }

<<
  {
    \new Staff \time 2/4
    \newSpacingSection
    \override Score.SpacingSpanner.strict-grace-spacing = ##t
    \tuplet 7/4 { g'16 a' b' c'' d'' e'' f'' } g''8 r
  }
  {
    \new Staff
    \tuplet 3/2 4 { g''8 \acciaccatura a'' g'' g'' } g'' r
  }
>>

Does this fix it for you? If it does, I encourage you to read the chapter on horizontal spacing of the Notation Reference, and then also look at the SpacingSpanner properties and interfaces in the Internals Reference.

Hope that helps!
Stéfano

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Re: Acciaccatura distoring spacing

David Sumbler
Hi Stefano,

I have now re-read the Horizontal Spacing section, and I am a bit wiser
than I was.

When I tried it, the fix you suggested worked perfectly for the snippet
in my email.  But I had great difficulty when I applied it to my actual
score: I kept getting numerous warnings:

        programming error: Cannot determine neighbors for floating column.
        continuing, cross fingers

Also, depending where I began/ended the strict-grace-spacing, I
sometimes had really bizarre results with a barline in completely the
wrong place and actually passing through noteheads!

After about 2 hours trying to isolate the cause, I found that it was
due to the fact that my default include file itself includes poly-mark-
engraver-ily.  I disabled this, and then recompiled the whole score
(all 150 pages of it).  To my great relief I found that there were no
problems: clearly I have not actually used the poly-mark facility in
this score.

Thank you very much for your help on this.

David


On Mon, 2019-05-20 at 12:45 -0300, Stefano Troncaro wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> Ttake a look a this snippet:
>
> \version "2.19.82"
>
> \paper { line-width = 65\mm }
>
> <<
>   {
>     \new Staff \time 2/4
>     \newSpacingSection
>     \override Score.SpacingSpanner.strict-grace-spacing = ##t
>     \tuplet 7/4 { g'16 a' b' c'' d'' e'' f'' } g''8 r
>   }
>   {
>     \new Staff
>     \tuplet 3/2 4 { g''8 \acciaccatura a'' g'' g'' } g'' r
>   }
> >>
>
> Does this fix it for you? If it does, I encourage you to read the
> chapter on horizontal spacing of the Notation Reference, and then
> also look at the SpacingSpanner properties and interfaces in the
> Internals Reference.
>
> Hope that helps!
> Stéfano



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Re: Acciaccatura distoring spacing

Stefano Troncaro
Oh I see, troubleshooting in big projects like what you describe can be so painful.

Hopefully you figure out specifically what in your poly-mark-engraver.ily is conflicting with overriding the SpacingSpanner. Perhaps if you manage to isolate the problem and make a short example showing the bizarre results you described someone in this list will be able to figure out what is happening and how to fix the poly-mark-engraver.

Anyways, I'm happy you solved it!

El lun., 20 may. 2019 a las 18:01, David Sumbler (<[hidden email]>) escribió:
Hi Stefano,

I have now re-read the Horizontal Spacing section, and I am a bit wiser
than I was.

When I tried it, the fix you suggested worked perfectly for the snippet
in my email.  But I had great difficulty when I applied it to my actual
score: I kept getting numerous warnings:

        programming error: Cannot determine neighbors for floating column.
        continuing, cross fingers

Also, depending where I began/ended the strict-grace-spacing, I
sometimes had really bizarre results with a barline in completely the
wrong place and actually passing through noteheads!

After about 2 hours trying to isolate the cause, I found that it was
due to the fact that my default include file itself includes poly-mark-
engraver-ily.  I disabled this, and then recompiled the whole score
(all 150 pages of it).  To my great relief I found that there were no
problems: clearly I have not actually used the poly-mark facility in
this score.

Thank you very much for your help on this.

David


On Mon, 2019-05-20 at 12:45 -0300, Stefano Troncaro wrote:
> Hi David,
>
> Ttake a look a this snippet:
>
> \version "2.19.82"
>
> \paper { line-width = 65\mm }
>
> <<
>   {
>     \new Staff \time 2/4
>     \newSpacingSection
>     \override Score.SpacingSpanner.strict-grace-spacing = ##t
>     \tuplet 7/4 { g'16 a' b' c'' d'' e'' f'' } g''8 r
>   }
>   {
>     \new Staff
>     \tuplet 3/2 4 { g''8 \acciaccatura a'' g'' g'' } g'' r
>   }
> >>
>
> Does this fix it for you? If it does, I encourage you to read the
> chapter on horizontal spacing of the Notation Reference, and then
> also look at the SpacingSpanner properties and interfaces in the
> Internals Reference.
>
> Hope that helps!
> Stéfano



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Re: Acciaccatura distoring spacing

David Sumbler
Armed with this method of correcting the spacing when acciaccature occur in conflicting rhythms, I tried applying it to some other passages which had similar but less noticeable spacing problems.

But there is a difficulty, which I mentioned before: if a barline occurs within a system, the barline is often printed in completely the wrong place, passing through noteheads etc. The error is always in shifting the barline to the right by a couple of inches or so.

Yet everything else about the output appears fine: the line end comes in the correct place (complete with barline), and the spacing is as required.

I blamed polymark when I reported this problem before. But now I find that, although I thought that disabling polymark had solved the problem, in other places the wrongly-placed barline occurs even when polymark is not included in the files.

The following pared down version of a couple of bars illustrates the problem.  It compiles correctly as it stands. But if the commented line is removed, then on my system, at least, the barline which should be placed after 5 crotchets, actually appears almost at the end of the line, after 9.25 crotchets.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
\version "2.19.82"
\language "english"
#(set-global-staff-size 16)

\score {
  \new StaffGroup <<
%    { \new Staff s4*5*2 }
    { \new Staff \time 5/4 \relative {
      r2
      \newSpacingSection
      \override Score.SpacingSpanner.strict-grace-spacing = ##t
      \tuplet 3/2 4 {r8 \acciaccatura a'' g-. \acciaccatura a g-.
     \once \hide TupletBracket
     \acciaccatura a g[-. r \acciaccatura a g]-.
     \acciaccatura a g-. \acciaccatura a g-. r} |
      \noBreak
      \tuplet 3/2 4 {\once \hide TupletBracket \acciaccatura a g8-.
     \acciaccatura a g-. \acciaccatura a g-.
     r \acciaccatura a g-. \acciaccatura a g-.}
      \acciaccatura a g-.
      r r2 |
    } }
    { \new Staff \relative {
       r2 g''16-. g-. e'( c) g-. g-. e'( c) g-. g-. e'( c) |
       \tweak extra-spacing-width #'(-3 . 0) g=''16-. g-. e'( c) r4 g16-. g-. e'( c)
       r8 e,16-. fs-. g-. a-. b-. c-. |
    } }
  >>
}  
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

If the spacer rests are replaced by normal rests, the problem goes away. But whole bar rests cause the problem to reappear, Even if the stave is not actually displayed (because \with \RemoveAllEmptyStaves has been added), the problem persists.

This surely is a bug. Whether it is or not, it is causing me a lot of difficulty, because I have a part for narrator which uses a dummy stave to add the narrator's words as Marks. If I replace the dummy rests with normal rests in this stave (which has \RemoveAllEmptyStaves) the stave reappears on any line where the narrator has to speak, although I don't understand why it does this: after all, the stave is still "empty", and the RehearsalMark is in the Score context.

Can anyone explain this odd behaviour?

David

On Tue, 2019-05-21 at 01:30 -0300, Stefano Troncaro wrote:
Oh I see, troubleshooting in big projects like what you describe can be so painful.

Hopefully you figure out specifically what in your poly-mark-engraver.ily is conflicting with overriding the SpacingSpanner. Perhaps if you manage to isolate the problem and make a short example showing the bizarre results you described someone in this list will be able to figure out what is happening and how to fix the poly-mark-engraver.

Anyways, I'm happy you solved it!

El lun., 20 may. 2019 a las 18:01, David Sumbler (<[hidden email]>) escribió:
Hi Stefano,

I have now re-read the Horizontal Spacing section, and I am a bit wiser
than I was.

When I tried it, the fix you suggested worked perfectly for the snippet
in my email.  But I had great difficulty when I applied it to my actual
score: I kept getting numerous warnings:

        programming error: Cannot determine neighbors for floating column.
        continuing, cross fingers

Also, depending where I began/ended the strict-grace-spacing, I
sometimes had really bizarre results with a barline in completely the
wrong place and actually passing through noteheads!

After about 2 hours trying to isolate the cause, I found that it was
due to the fact that my default include file itself includes poly-mark-
engraver-ily.  I disabled this, and then recompiled the whole score
(all 150 pages of it).  To my great relief I found that there were no
problems: clearly I have not actually used the poly-mark facility in
this score.

Thank you very much for your help on this.

David


On Mon, 2019-05-20 at 12:45 -0300, Stefano Troncaro wrote:
> Hi David,
> Ttake a look a this snippet:
> \version "2.19.82"
> \paper { line-width = 65\mm }
> <<
>   {
>     \new Staff \time 2/4
>     \newSpacingSection
>     \override Score.SpacingSpanner.strict-grace-spacing = ##t
>     \tuplet 7/4 { g'16 a' b' c'' d'' e'' f'' } g''8 r
>   }
>   {
>     \new Staff
>     \tuplet 3/2 4 { g''8 \acciaccatura a'' g'' g'' } g'' r
>   }
> >>
> Does this fix it for you? If it does, I encourage you to read the
> chapter on horizontal spacing of the Notation Reference, and then
> also look at the SpacingSpanner properties and interfaces in the
> Internals Reference.
> Hope that helps!
> Stéfano




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Re: Acciaccatura distoring spacing

Stefano Troncaro
Hi David,

Look at this:

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
\version "2.19.82"
\language "english"
#(set-global-staff-size 16)

strictGraceTrue = {
  \newSpacingSection
  \override Score.SpacingSpanner.strict-grace-spacing = ##t }

strictGraceFalse = {
  \newSpacingSection
  \override Score.SpacingSpanner.strict-grace-spacing = ##f }

\score {
  \new StaffGroup <<
    \new Staff { s4*5*2 }
    \new Staff \relative { \time 5/4
      r2
      \strictGraceTrue
      \tuplet 3/2 4 {r8 \acciaccatura a'' g-. \acciaccatura a g-.
     \once \hide TupletBracket
     \acciaccatura a g[-. r \acciaccatura a g]-.
     \acciaccatura a g-. \acciaccatura a g-. r} |
      \noBreak \strictGraceFalse
      \tuplet 3/2 4 {\once \hide TupletBracket \acciaccatura a g8-.
     \acciaccatura a g-. \acciaccatura a g-.
     r \acciaccatura a g-. \acciaccatura a g-.}
      \acciaccatura a g-.
      r r2 |
    }
    \new Staff \relative {
       r2 g''16-. g-. e'( c) g-. g-. e'( c) g-. g-. e'( c) |
       \grace s8 g=''16-. \strictGraceTrue g-. e'( c) r4 g16-. g-. e'( c)
       r8 e,16-. fs-. g-. a-. b-. c-. |
    }
  >>

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

I'm sorry I don't have time to write a full explanation, or more tests now, but I think the problem lies with the fact that the bar starts with an acciacatura in one Voice, but there is a bar check and no acciacatura in the other Voice. Writing an acciacatura with a spacer rest in the voice that has no printed grace note solves the issue. To avoid having the grace (that occupies no time with the strict-grace-spacing set to #t) collide with the barline, I changed spacing sections.

Hope this helps,
Stéfano

El dom., 26 may. 2019 a las 13:29, David Sumbler (<[hidden email]>) escribió:
Armed with this method of correcting the spacing when acciaccature occur in conflicting rhythms, I tried applying it to some other passages which had similar but less noticeable spacing problems.

But there is a difficulty, which I mentioned before: if a barline occurs within a system, the barline is often printed in completely the wrong place, passing through noteheads etc. The error is always in shifting the barline to the right by a couple of inches or so.

Yet everything else about the output appears fine: the line end comes in the correct place (complete with barline), and the spacing is as required.

I blamed polymark when I reported this problem before. But now I find that, although I thought that disabling polymark had solved the problem, in other places the wrongly-placed barline occurs even when polymark is not included in the files.

The following pared down version of a couple of bars illustrates the problem.  It compiles correctly as it stands. But if the commented line is removed, then on my system, at least, the barline which should be placed after 5 crotchets, actually appears almost at the end of the line, after 9.25 crotchets.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
\version "2.19.82"
\language "english"
#(set-global-staff-size 16)

\score {
  \new StaffGroup <<
%    { \new Staff s4*5*2 }
    { \new Staff \time 5/4 \relative {
      r2
      \newSpacingSection
      \override Score.SpacingSpanner.strict-grace-spacing = ##t
      \tuplet 3/2 4 {r8 \acciaccatura a'' g-. \acciaccatura a g-.
     \once \hide TupletBracket
     \acciaccatura a g[-. r \acciaccatura a g]-.
     \acciaccatura a g-. \acciaccatura a g-. r} |
      \noBreak
      \tuplet 3/2 4 {\once \hide TupletBracket \acciaccatura a g8-.
     \acciaccatura a g-. \acciaccatura a g-.
     r \acciaccatura a g-. \acciaccatura a g-.}
      \acciaccatura a g-.
      r r2 |
    } }
    { \new Staff \relative {
       r2 g''16-. g-. e'( c) g-. g-. e'( c) g-. g-. e'( c) |
       \tweak extra-spacing-width #'(-3 . 0) g=''16-. g-. e'( c) r4 g16-. g-. e'( c)
       r8 e,16-. fs-. g-. a-. b-. c-. |
    } }
  >>
}  
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

If the spacer rests are replaced by normal rests, the problem goes away. But whole bar rests cause the problem to reappear, Even if the stave is not actually displayed (because \with \RemoveAllEmptyStaves has been added), the problem persists.

This surely is a bug. Whether it is or not, it is causing me a lot of difficulty, because I have a part for narrator which uses a dummy stave to add the narrator's words as Marks. If I replace the dummy rests with normal rests in this stave (which has \RemoveAllEmptyStaves) the stave reappears on any line where the narrator has to speak, although I don't understand why it does this: after all, the stave is still "empty", and the RehearsalMark is in the Score context.

Can anyone explain this odd behaviour?

David

On Tue, 2019-05-21 at 01:30 -0300, Stefano Troncaro wrote:
Oh I see, troubleshooting in big projects like what you describe can be so painful.

Hopefully you figure out specifically what in your poly-mark-engraver.ily is conflicting with overriding the SpacingSpanner. Perhaps if you manage to isolate the problem and make a short example showing the bizarre results you described someone in this list will be able to figure out what is happening and how to fix the poly-mark-engraver.

Anyways, I'm happy you solved it!

El lun., 20 may. 2019 a las 18:01, David Sumbler (<[hidden email]>) escribió:
Hi Stefano,

I have now re-read the Horizontal Spacing section, and I am a bit wiser
than I was.

When I tried it, the fix you suggested worked perfectly for the snippet
in my email.  But I had great difficulty when I applied it to my actual
score: I kept getting numerous warnings:

        programming error: Cannot determine neighbors for floating column.
        continuing, cross fingers

Also, depending where I began/ended the strict-grace-spacing, I
sometimes had really bizarre results with a barline in completely the
wrong place and actually passing through noteheads!

After about 2 hours trying to isolate the cause, I found that it was
due to the fact that my default include file itself includes poly-mark-
engraver-ily.  I disabled this, and then recompiled the whole score
(all 150 pages of it).  To my great relief I found that there were no
problems: clearly I have not actually used the poly-mark facility in
this score.

Thank you very much for your help on this.

David


On Mon, 2019-05-20 at 12:45 -0300, Stefano Troncaro wrote:
> Hi David,
> Ttake a look a this snippet:
> \version "2.19.82"
> \paper { line-width = 65\mm }
> <<
>   {
>     \new Staff \time 2/4
>     \newSpacingSection
>     \override Score.SpacingSpanner.strict-grace-spacing = ##t
>     \tuplet 7/4 { g'16 a' b' c'' d'' e'' f'' } g''8 r
>   }
>   {
>     \new Staff
>     \tuplet 3/2 4 { g''8 \acciaccatura a'' g'' g'' } g'' r
>   }
> >>
> Does this fix it for you? If it does, I encourage you to read the
> chapter on horizontal spacing of the Notation Reference, and then
> also look at the SpacingSpanner properties and interfaces in the
> Internals Reference.
> Hope that helps!
> Stéfano




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[Lilypond] How to add 12 bars of guitar strumming as Intro

John Helly
Aloha.

I'm writing a song for guitar and vocal that has the structure below. I would like to add 12 bars of strumming guitar as an Intro but cannot figure out how to add it within the Staff since it doesn't have a melody, only strumming of the chords.

I've been trying to figure out how to add this as a Voice (\Song.Voice.Intro) but can't seem to find the secret sauce or maybe that's the wrong approach?

Mahalos.
J.

*************************
<<
\chords{ \theChords \theChords \theChords  }
\new Staff {
  \key a \minor
  \new Voice = "intro"   { \Song.Voice.Intro  \break }
  \new Voice = "verse"   { \Song.Voice.Verse  \bar "||" }
  \new Voice = "chorus"  { \Song.Voice.Chorus \bar "||" }
  \new Voice = "outro"   { \Song.Voice.Outro  \bar ":|." }
}
\new Lyrics \lyricsto "verse" { \Song.Lyrics.VerseI }
\new Lyrics
  <<
  \lyricsto "verse"  { \Song.Lyrics.VerseII }
  \lyricsto "chorus" { \Song.Lyrics.Chorus }
  >>
\new Lyrics  \lyricsto "verse" { \Song.Lyrics.VerseIII }
\new Lyrics
  <<
  \lyricsto "verse" { \Song.Lyrics.VerseIV }
  \lyricsto "chorus" { \Song.Lyrics.Chorus }
  >>
\new Lyrics  \lyricsto "verse"  { \Song.Lyrics.VerseV }
\new Lyrics  \lyricsto "outro"  { \Song.Lyrics.Outro }
>>
*********************


-- 
================================================
University of Hawaii, Maui College / Mobile 760.840.8660

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Re: Acciaccatura distoring spacing

Andrew Bernard
In reply to this post by Stefano Troncaro
Hi All,

Isn't this a well known bug in lilypond? Much discussion in the list archives. You need to add the spacer in the other voice.

Andrew



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Re: [Lilypond] How to add 12 bars of guitar strumming as Intro

John Helly
In reply to this post by John Helly
Mahalo. I'll investigate.
J.

On 5/26/19 20:34, Michael Hendry wrote:

>> On 26 May 2019, at 22:35, John Helly <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Aloha.
>>
>> I'm writing a song for guitar and vocal that has the structure below. I would like to add 12 bars of strumming guitar as an Intro but cannot figure out how to add it within the Staff since it doesn't have a melody, only strumming of the chords.
>>
>> I've been trying to figure out how to add this as a Voice (\Song.Voice.Intro) but can't seem to find the secret sauce or maybe that's the wrong approach?
>>
>> Mahalos.
>> J.
>>
>> *************************
>> <<
>> \chords{ \theChords \theChords \theChords  }
>> \new Staff {
>>   \key a \minor
>>   \new Voice = "intro"   { \Song.Voice.Intro  \break }
>>   \new Voice = "verse"   { \Song.Voice.Verse  \bar "||" }
>>   \new Voice = "chorus"  { \Song.Voice.Chorus \bar "||" }
>>   \new Voice = "outro"   { \Song.Voice.Outro  \bar ":|." }
>> }
>> \new Lyrics \lyricsto "verse" { \Song.Lyrics.VerseI }
>> \new Lyrics
>>   <<
>>   \lyricsto "verse"  { \Song.Lyrics.VerseII }
>>   \lyricsto "chorus" { \Song.Lyrics.Chorus }
>>   >>
>> \new Lyrics  \lyricsto "verse" { \Song.Lyrics.VerseIII }
>> \new Lyrics
>>   <<
>>   \lyricsto "verse" { \Song.Lyrics.VerseIV }
>>   \lyricsto "chorus" { \Song.Lyrics.Chorus }
>>   >>
>> \new Lyrics  \lyricsto "verse"  { \Song.Lyrics.VerseV }
>> \new Lyrics  \lyricsto "outro"  { \Song.Lyrics.Outro }
>> *********************
> Have you had a look here?
>
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/snippets/rhythms
>
> Search for the section marked “Guitar strum rhythms”.
>
> Michael
>

--
================================================
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Re: Acciaccatura distoring spacing

David Sumbler
In reply to this post by Stefano Troncaro
Firstly let me apologise for my stupidity: I am quite aware of the
problem with gracenotes after barlines.  But in this case, with a
normal barline, there wasn't a problem until I started experimenting
with SpacingSpanner.strict-grace-spacing.  When the problem did arise,
it just didn't occur to me that the lack of dummy graces in the other
parts might be a factor.

Still... there really does still seem to be something odd and very
unsatisfactory going on here.  I have spent hours and hours
experimenting with this, and so far I haven't found a way of getting a
wholly satisfactory result.

The following example illustrates the sort of problem I get:
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
\language "english"
#(set-global-staff-size 16)

\score {
   \new StaffGroup <<
     { \new Staff \time 5/4 \relative {
      \tuplet 6/4 {c'''16( d c a g e} c8) r
      \tuplet 3/2 4 {r \acciaccatura a' g-. \acciaccatura a g-.
                     \once \hide TupletBracket
                     \acciaccatura a g[-. r \acciaccatura a g]-.
                     \acciaccatura a g-. \acciaccatura a g-. r} |
      %% Violin 2-A Score No.1 bar 69
      \tuplet 3/2 4 {\once \hide TupletBracket \acciaccatura a='' g8-.
                     \acciaccatura a g-. \acciaccatura a g-.
                     r \acciaccatura a g-. \acciaccatura a g-.}
      \acciaccatura a g-.
      r r4
      \tuplet 6/4 {c16( d c a g e)} |
     } }
     { \new Staff \relative {
      r2
      \newSpacingSection
      \override Score.SpacingSpanner.strict-grace-spacing = ##t
      g''16-. g-. e'( c) g-. g-. e'( c) g-. g-. e'( c) |
      \newSpacingSection
      \revert Score.SpacingSpanner.strict-grace-spacing
      %% Violin 2-B Score No.1 bars 69
      \grace s8 g=''16-.
      \newSpacingSection
      \override Score.SpacingSpanner.strict-grace-spacing = ##t
      g-. e'( c) r4
      \newSpacingSection
      \revert Score.SpacingSpanner.strict-grace-spacing
      g16-. g-. e'( c)
      r8 e,16-. fs-. g-. a-. b-. c-. |
     } }
   >>
 }
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

At first glance this is reasonable, and certainly the problem of the
barline appearing 4 1/2 beats later than it should has been solved.

But in fact the barline is still not quite where it should be: it is
too far to the left, so that it is almost touching the last semiquaver
of the first bar, and there is an unnecessarily large space before the
acciaccatura in the upper line.

In the original score there are 8 other staves (plus 2 invisible ones),
generally less busy than these 2 staves.  If I could understand how to
get a predictably good result for these 2 staves, hopefully that would
translate into a solution for the whole score.  But at the moment, it's
"doing my head in", as they say.

David


On Mon, 2019-05-27 at 09:20 +1000, Andrew Bernard wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Isn't this a well known bug in lilypond? Much discussion in the list
> archives. You need to add the spacer in the other voice.
>
> Andrew
>

On Sun, 2019-05-26 at 14:20 -0300, Stefano Troncaro wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> Look at this:
>
> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
> \version "2.19.82"
> \language "english"
> #(set-global-staff-size 16)
>
> strictGraceTrue = {
>   \newSpacingSection
>   \override Score.SpacingSpanner.strict-grace-spacing = ##t }
>
> strictGraceFalse = {
>   \newSpacingSection
>   \override Score.SpacingSpanner.strict-grace-spacing = ##f }
>
> \score {
>   \new StaffGroup <<
>     \new Staff { s4*5*2 }
>     \new Staff \relative { \time 5/4
>       r2
>       \strictGraceTrue
>       \tuplet 3/2 4 {r8 \acciaccatura a'' g-. \acciaccatura a g-.
>      \once \hide TupletBracket
>      \acciaccatura a g[-. r \acciaccatura a g]-.
>      \acciaccatura a g-. \acciaccatura a g-. r} |
>       \noBreak \strictGraceFalse
>       \tuplet 3/2 4 {\once \hide TupletBracket \acciaccatura a g8-.
>      \acciaccatura a g-. \acciaccatura a g-.
>      r \acciaccatura a g-. \acciaccatura a g-.}
>       \acciaccatura a g-.
>       r r2 |
>     }
>     \new Staff \relative {
>        r2 g''16-. g-. e'( c) g-. g-. e'( c) g-. g-. e'( c) |
>        \grace s8 g=''16-. \strictGraceTrue g-. e'( c) r4 g16-. g-.
> e'( c)
>        r8 e,16-. fs-. g-. a-. b-. c-. |
>     }
>   >>
> }  
> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
>
> I'm sorry I don't have time to write a full explanation, or more
> tests now, but I think the problem lies with the fact that the bar
> starts with an acciacatura in one Voice, but there is a bar check and
> no acciacatura in the other Voice. Writing an acciacatura with a
> spacer rest in the voice that has no printed grace note solves the
> issue. To avoid having the grace (that occupies no time with the
> strict-grace-spacing set to #t) collide with the barline, I changed
> spacing sections.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Stéfano


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