2.20 release roadmap

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2.20 release roadmap

Andrew Bernard
Hello All,

I asked the same on the user list, but no response. Is there any roadmap
as to when 2.20 may be released? Are there any plans to do so?

I KNOW we are very under-resourced. I'd very much like to help with the
development but I regret to say I have never been able to wrap my mind
around the lilypond source code and how it all works, so I can't
contribute, although I would very much like to. For some reason, despite
experience in software, I personally find it very opaque. But that's
just me.

As always, sincere thanks to those who do work on this amazing software.

Andrew



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Re: 2.20 release roadmap

Andrew Bernard
I do hope this is not seen as impertinent, because it is not intended
that way. It's curious that I have asked the question about 2.20 release
more than once and each time received no reply (unless lost in my mailers).

Most projects will give some sort of indication about future releases.
If the indication for lilypond is simply 'indefinite' that's alright,
but I would be keen to know.


Andrew


On 18/9/19 1:44 pm, Andrew Bernard wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> I asked the same on the user list, but no response. Is there any
> roadmap as to when 2.20 may be released? Are there any plans to do so?
>
> I KNOW we are very under-resourced. I'd very much like to help with
> the development but I regret to say I have never been able to wrap my
> mind around the lilypond source code and how it all works, so I can't
> contribute, although I would very much like to. For some reason,
> despite experience in software, I personally find it very opaque. But
> that's just me.
>
> As always, sincere thanks to those who do work on this amazing software.
>
> Andrew
>
>

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Re: 2.20 release roadmap

Carl Sorensen-3
We are stuck for release because GUB is not working properly.  Until we get GUB to work properly, we cannot make a release.

As far as I know now, the answer is in fact indefinite.

Thanks,

Carl


On 9/19/19, 6:14 PM, "Andrew Bernard" <[hidden email]> wrote:

    I do hope this is not seen as impertinent, because it is not intended
    that way. It's curious that I have asked the question about 2.20 release
    more than once and each time received no reply (unless lost in my mailers).
   
    Most projects will give some sort of indication about future releases.
    If the indication for lilypond is simply 'indefinite' that's alright,
    but I would be keen to know.
   
   
    Andrew
   
   
    On 18/9/19 1:44 pm, Andrew Bernard wrote:
    > Hello All,
    >
    > I asked the same on the user list, but no response. Is there any
    > roadmap as to when 2.20 may be released? Are there any plans to do so?
    >
    > I KNOW we are very under-resourced. I'd very much like to help with
    > the development but I regret to say I have never been able to wrap my
    > mind around the lilypond source code and how it all works, so I can't
    > contribute, although I would very much like to. For some reason,
    > despite experience in software, I personally find it very opaque. But
    > that's just me.
    >
    > As always, sincere thanks to those who do work on this amazing software.
    >
    > Andrew
    >
    >
   
    _______________________________________________
    lilypond-devel mailing list
    [hidden email]
    https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
   

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Re: 2.20 release roadmap

Andrew Bernard
Thank you Carl.

Andrew


On 20/9/19 10:23 am, Carl Sorensen wrote:
> We are stuck for release because GUB is not working properly.  Until we get GUB to work properly, we cannot make a release.
>
> As far as I know now, the answer is in fact indefinite.
>

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Re: 2.20 release roadmap

Urs Liska-3
In reply to this post by Carl Sorensen-3


Am 20. September 2019 02:23:58 MESZ schrieb Carl Sorensen <[hidden email]>:
>We are stuck for release because GUB is not working properly.  Until we
>get GUB to work properly, we cannot make a release.
>
>As far as I know now, the answer is in fact indefinite.

But is that the actual roadblock for the *2.20* release, not just *any*? I mean: once that's solved, there was discussion about another 2.19 release, but would that also mean 2.20 can be immediately released?

Of course it's futile since I can't help much, but it would becreally great to have a "stable" release by January . We'll have the music engraving conference in Salzburg (that Werner announced  a few days ago), where we expect other software to be presented too. It would be awkward - to put it mildly - to talk about our program that hasn't seen  a stabke release in six years bx then ...

Urs

>
>Thanks,
>
>Carl
>
>
>On 9/19/19, 6:14 PM, "Andrew Bernard" <[hidden email]>
>wrote:
>
> I do hope this is not seen as impertinent, because it is not intended
>that way. It's curious that I have asked the question about 2.20
>release
>more than once and each time received no reply (unless lost in my
>mailers).
>    
>Most projects will give some sort of indication about future releases.
> If the indication for lilypond is simply 'indefinite' that's alright,
>    but I would be keen to know.
>    
>    
>    Andrew
>    
>    
>    On 18/9/19 1:44 pm, Andrew Bernard wrote:
>    > Hello All,
>    >
>    > I asked the same on the user list, but no response. Is there any
>> roadmap as to when 2.20 may be released? Are there any plans to do
>so?
>    >
> > I KNOW we are very under-resourced. I'd very much like to help with
>> the development but I regret to say I have never been able to wrap my
>
>> mind around the lilypond source code and how it all works, so I can't
>
>    > contribute, although I would very much like to. For some reason,
>> despite experience in software, I personally find it very opaque. But
>
>    > that's just me.
>    >
>> As always, sincere thanks to those who do work on this amazing
>software.
>    >
>    > Andrew
>    >
>    >
>    
>    _______________________________________________
>    lilypond-devel mailing list
>    [hidden email]
>    https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
>    
>
>_______________________________________________
>lilypond-devel mailing list
>[hidden email]
>https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel

--
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Gerät mit K-9 Mail gesendet.

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Re: 2.20 release roadmap

Jacques Menu Muzhic
What is the problem in GUB today, and what can be done to help solve it?

JM

> Le 20 sept. 2019 à 07:23, Urs Liska <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
>
>
> Am 20. September 2019 02:23:58 MESZ schrieb Carl Sorensen <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>:
>> We are stuck for release because GUB is not working properly.  Until we
>> get GUB to work properly, we cannot make a release.
>>
>> As far as I know now, the answer is in fact indefinite.
>
> But is that the actual roadblock for the *2.20* release, not just *any*? I mean: once that's solved, there was discussion about another 2.19 release, but would that also mean 2.20 can be immediately released?
>
> Of course it's futile since I can't help much, but it would becreally great to have a "stable" release by January . We'll have the music engraving conference in Salzburg (that Werner announced  a few days ago), where we expect other software to be presented too. It would be awkward - to put it mildly - to talk about our program that hasn't seen  a stabke release in six years bx then ...
>
> Urs
>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Carl
>>
>>
>> On 9/19/19, 6:14 PM, "Andrew Bernard" <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I do hope this is not seen as impertinent, because it is not intended
>> that way. It's curious that I have asked the question about 2.20
>> release
>> more than once and each time received no reply (unless lost in my
>> mailers).
>>
>> Most projects will give some sort of indication about future releases.
>> If the indication for lilypond is simply 'indefinite' that's alright,
>>   but I would be keen to know.
>>
>>
>>   Andrew
>>
>>
>>   On 18/9/19 1:44 pm, Andrew Bernard wrote:
>>> Hello All,
>>>
>>> I asked the same on the user list, but no response. Is there any
>>> roadmap as to when 2.20 may be released? Are there any plans to do
>> so?
>>>
>>> I KNOW we are very under-resourced. I'd very much like to help with
>>> the development but I regret to say I have never been able to wrap my
>>
>>> mind around the lilypond source code and how it all works, so I can't
>>
>>> contribute, although I would very much like to. For some reason,
>>> despite experience in software, I personally find it very opaque. But
>>
>>> that's just me.
>>>
>>> As always, sincere thanks to those who do work on this amazing
>> software.
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>>
>>
>>   _______________________________________________
>>   lilypond-devel mailing list
>>   [hidden email]
>>   https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> lilypond-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
>
> --
> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Gerät mit K-9 Mail gesendet.
>
> _______________________________________________
> lilypond-devel mailing list
> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel <https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel>
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Re: 2.20 release roadmap

Phil Holmes
In reply to this post by Carl Sorensen-3
Don't believe so.  I've run GUB recently to build 2.18.83 and don't know
that 2.20 would not build, once the git repo is stable.

--
Phil Holmes


----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Sorensen" <[hidden email]>
To: "Andrew Bernard" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2019 1:23 AM
Subject: Re: 2.20 release roadmap


> We are stuck for release because GUB is not working properly.  Until we
> get GUB to work properly, we cannot make a release.
>
> As far as I know now, the answer is in fact indefinite.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Carl
>
>
> On 9/19/19, 6:14 PM, "Andrew Bernard" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>    I do hope this is not seen as impertinent, because it is not intended
>    that way. It's curious that I have asked the question about 2.20
> release
>    more than once and each time received no reply (unless lost in my
> mailers).
>
>    Most projects will give some sort of indication about future releases.
>    If the indication for lilypond is simply 'indefinite' that's alright,
>    but I would be keen to know.
>
>
>    Andrew
>
>
>    On 18/9/19 1:44 pm, Andrew Bernard wrote:
>    > Hello All,
>    >
>    > I asked the same on the user list, but no response. Is there any
>    > roadmap as to when 2.20 may be released? Are there any plans to do
> so?
>    >
>    > I KNOW we are very under-resourced. I'd very much like to help with
>    > the development but I regret to say I have never been able to wrap my
>    > mind around the lilypond source code and how it all works, so I can't
>    > contribute, although I would very much like to. For some reason,
>    > despite experience in software, I personally find it very opaque. But
>    > that's just me.
>    >
>    > As always, sincere thanks to those who do work on this amazing
> software.
>    >
>    > Andrew
>    >
>    >
>
>    _______________________________________________
>    lilypond-devel mailing list
>    [hidden email]
>    https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> lilypond-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
>


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Re: 2.20 release roadmap

Phil Holmes
In reply to this post by Andrew Bernard
Correction - 2.19.83.

--
Phil Holmes


----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Holmes" <[hidden email]>
To: "Carl Sorensen" <[hidden email]>; "Andrew Bernard"
<[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2019 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: 2.20 release roadmap


> Don't believe so.  I've run GUB recently to build 2.18.83 and don't know
> that 2.20 would not build, once the git repo is stable.
>
> --
> Phil Holmes
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carl Sorensen" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Andrew Bernard" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Friday, September 20, 2019 1:23 AM
> Subject: Re: 2.20 release roadmap
>
>
>> We are stuck for release because GUB is not working properly.  Until we
>> get GUB to work properly, we cannot make a release.
>>
>> As far as I know now, the answer is in fact indefinite.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Carl
>>
>>
>> On 9/19/19, 6:14 PM, "Andrew Bernard" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>    I do hope this is not seen as impertinent, because it is not intended
>>    that way. It's curious that I have asked the question about 2.20
>> release
>>    more than once and each time received no reply (unless lost in my
>> mailers).
>>
>>    Most projects will give some sort of indication about future releases.
>>    If the indication for lilypond is simply 'indefinite' that's alright,
>>    but I would be keen to know.
>>
>>
>>    Andrew
>>
>>
>>    On 18/9/19 1:44 pm, Andrew Bernard wrote:
>>    > Hello All,
>>    >
>>    > I asked the same on the user list, but no response. Is there any
>>    > roadmap as to when 2.20 may be released? Are there any plans to do
>> so?
>>    >
>>    > I KNOW we are very under-resourced. I'd very much like to help with
>>    > the development but I regret to say I have never been able to wrap
>> my
>>    > mind around the lilypond source code and how it all works, so I
>> can't
>>    > contribute, although I would very much like to. For some reason,
>>    > despite experience in software, I personally find it very opaque.
>> But
>>    > that's just me.
>>    >
>>    > As always, sincere thanks to those who do work on this amazing
>> software.
>>    >
>>    > Andrew
>>    >
>>    >
>>
>>    _______________________________________________
>>    lilypond-devel mailing list
>>    [hidden email]
>>    https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> lilypond-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
>>
>


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Re: 2.20 release roadmap

Federico Bruni-2
In reply to this post by Carl Sorensen-3
Il giorno ven 20 set 2019 alle 00:23, Carl Sorensen
<[hidden email]> ha scritto:
> We are stuck for release because GUB is not working properly.  Until
> we get GUB to work properly, we cannot make a release.
>
> As far as I know now, the answer is in fact indefinite.

I think that the release of the new stable depends on the open
regressions (currently 8)?
https://sourceforge.net/p/testlilyissues/issues/search/?q=%28_type%3ACritical+OR+labels%3ARegression%29+AND+%28status%3ANew+OR+status%3AAccepted+OR+status%3AStarted%29

but David K may be more specific




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Re: 2.20 release roadmap

Knut Petersen
In reply to this post by Carl Sorensen-3
Hi Carl!

> We are stuck for release because GUB is not working properly.

GUB definitely is NOT broken.

On a lot of distributions GUB works without problems.

If there is a problem with a specific distribution (I think Archlinux is such a case) it is always easy to run GUB inside of an ubuntu chroot environment.

If you want to try it: The attached script instminubugub installs such a minimal ubuntu system inside of /home/`whoami`/minubugub, chroots to that environment, installs a few additional ubuntu packages (git, libs, TeX, etc.), installs gub and uses gub to build current lilypond master.

The instminubugub script takes no arguments, execute it as an ordinary user.

The assumptions about the system are minimal: 'whoami', 'wget', 'sudo', 'chroot' and 'xz' must be installed, it neeeds a standard /etc/fstab, the system must be connected to the internet. And, of course, gub needs a lot of disk space ...

On my i7-4790K system instminubugub took a bit less than three hours to install the ubuntu-chroot environment and gub and to successfully build git master today.

Knut


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instminubugub (5K) Download Attachment
dak
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Re: 2.20 release roadmap

dak
In reply to this post by Phil Holmes
"Phil Holmes" <[hidden email]> writes:

> Don't believe so.  I've run GUB recently to build 2.18.83 and don't
> know that 2.20 would not build, once the git repo is stable.

There has been significant progress on GUB recently, mostly due to Knut.
It's pretty clear however that it's unlikely Python 2 will be around for
all of the 2.20 life cycle so that's likely to become a major
distraction at some point of time.  I don't think it would preclude
2.20.0 to be released, but it might necessitate a 2.20.1 (or greater)
later in its life cycle, distracting from other work.

I've recently done some significant bunches of cherry-picking from the
development branch if anybody had bothered to look at the stable branch
instead of just complaining, but am not finished with it yet.  Once I
am, that will likely be 2.19.84.  It might end up being released 2.20.0
eventually (if no major problems surface) since the current impasse is
looking to be causing more trouble than it is fixing.

I am fighting with motivating myself.  This question is being answered
about every month or two and pretending otherwise is not really
improving morale.  I am really grateful for all the great people who
reliably manage to keep up and contribute their part of getting there
and am sorry that it seems so hard for me to do my part.  As it stands,
we don't have realistic alternatives for 2.20 release management
offering themselves so I'll keep up stumbling to the finishing line.

--
David Kastrup

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Re: 2.20 release roadmap

Werner LEMBERG

> I've recently done some significant bunches of cherry-picking from
> the development branch if anybody had bothered to look at the stable
> branch instead of just complaining,

:-)  Thanks for that.


    Werner

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